As Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Nears Its End, Series Vets Agree: Breaking Away From MCU Continuity Was Marvelous
To quote Kora: “You must realize it by now,” Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. viewers. Given all of the time travel (and the making of “waves” vs. “ripples”) during this final season, the timeline in which Coulson & Co. shared even the slightest continuity with the big-screen MCU “is long gone.” But that split, says at least two OG cast members, is a good thing.
At a press event in support of the two-hour series finale airing this Wednesday, Aug. 12 at 9/8c on ABC, Natalia Cordova-Buckley — who joined the cast midway through Season 3, as Agent Elena “Yo-Yo” Rodriguez — was saying how she “would have loved for the movies and our world to connect” more than they did, when original cast member Ming-Na Wen jumped in with a counterpoint.
“Oh, no, I was there for that [first] season and no, uh-uh, no. Because It really, completely tied the writers’ hands,” Agent Melinda May’s portrayer recalled. “They had to write and try and coordinate with the release of the film [Captain America: The Winter Soldier]… and it just hampered us. It hampered the writers, it hampered everyone to have the freedom to be our own entity.”
Released to theaters on April 4, 2014, Winter Soldier revealed that S.H.I.E.L.D. had been overrun with HYDRA sleeper agents, leading to the organization being compromised. Four days later, the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode “Turn, Turn, Turn” directly picked up that storyline — marking one of the ABC series’ first major tie-ins with the MCU, not long after Jaimie Alexander reprised her role as the Thor films’ Lady Sif.
That film-to-TV crossover is commonly hailed as the moment that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. truly kicked into high gear, after 16 episodes of “treading water,” as Clark Gregg put it.
“There was a lot of treading water in Season 1, waiting to reveal what we were doing and how it was crossing over,” Gregg observed at the Aug. 6 press event. “I do think the way it crossed over with Winter Soldier, and the use of the amazing Bill Paxton [as HYDRA mole John Garrett], really paid off, and the end of Season 1 holds up really well.”
An “It’s All Connected” hand-off such as Winter Soldier/”Turn, Turn, Turn” “serves to publicize the features and certainly help to publicize the show,” Gregg acknowledges, “but I liked when the focus [became], ‘What’s the best way to tell stories with these characters, using whatever pieces of the Marvel Universe aren’t already spoken for?’ That really freed up our writers to take chances — and take chances they did, every season.”
Wen shared a similar POV, that as fun as it may have been when the TV series tied into the blockbuster Marvel movies — which, all told, wasn’t very often at all, and most notably saw the TV series wholly ignore the Thanos “snap” that drove the narrative of the final two Avengers movies — Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was best when doing its own thing.
“I think it was a glorious idea to have this all be ‘connected,’ but in the end it was so great because it allowed our writers to just take off and use their imagination and create things that they were allowed to have with different characters and different storylines,” said Melinda May’s portrayer. “But that first season was a bit bumpy, definitely. It definitely had its issues…. There were all kinds of weird things we couldn’t do or say.” But once the notion of movie-to-TV continuity was prudently back-pocketed, “We found our own identity.”
WATCH THE S.H.I.E.L.D. CAST’S FIRST COMIC-CON Q&A
The concept of linking the show to the films was ambitious and very cool, but it fell flat because the movies showed zero interest in a two-way relationship.
Behind the scenes, I get it, given the tension between Kevin Feige and Jeph Loeb, but it’s still a shame. Hopefully things will be better now that all of Marvel’s new shows are Feige-led.
Agreed. I would have loved to see Coulson in one of the movies again, instead of pretending he was still dead from the first Avenger’s movie. I guess people that never watched the show might have been confused, but it shouldn’t have been a big deal.
It really shouldn’t. He would have had to explain himself to the Avengers, and that could have just as easily caught up the non-AoS audience too.
Ya probably this. I loved the integration idea, but once I realized none of the actual Avengers we’re going to do a cameo ever, my interest in the show waned. I’m sure the narrative of the show got better when they were freed from keeping the continuity, but I was already checked out.
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They would have done better to have placed the show post Captain Marvel but pre Iron Man, and given us a history of that time period – it would have freed the writers and the audience.
what are you talking about placing the show “post Capt Marvel and pre-IM” ???
the show began in 2013 …. literally YEARS before the script for Capt Marvel was even written, much less filmed and released
Marvel didn’t decide on confirming Capt Marvel until well after AoS was already in season 2 or 3 (or possibly even season 4)
They still could have set a series in those years preceding the main events of the films. It would then have been up to Captain Marvel to dovetail with the show’s events when that screenplay was eventually written.
Ah yes, cause in 2013 Marvel had absolutely no plan for their behemoth empire. They were just flying by the seat of their pants. /sarcasm. AoS came out before there was a Marvel script, but let’s not delude ourselves in thinking she wasn’t on the timeline over there are Marvel HQ.
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Wordsmith gave a much better answer to you though.
Capt Marvel is set in 1995, IM 1 in 2008. So the OP was suggesting 1995-2007 for a Shield show.
Well who knows what will happen in the finale next week maybe they’ll fix everything and the agents will somehow be in the main MCU timeline to where it is now (5 years in the future) so that maybe after Shield wraps their story the characters can appear again in future MCU projects (like maybe the Disney+ shows and possibly the films).
That’s my hope. I want Chloe as Quake in the A Force movie that I’m trying to will into existence. =)
While I do agree that it didn’t happen often and it certainly happened in a subtle ways, the movies actually DID connect to AoS several times…
I have to agree. SHIELD became much better when they were NOT trying to align with the movie universe. Was Coulson ever resurrected in the movies?
Nope. Joss Whedon quote circa April 2014: “As far as I’m concerned in the films, yes he’s dead. In terms of the narrative of these guys [the Avengers], his loss was very important. When I created the television show, it was sort of on the understanding that this can work and we can do it with integrity, but these Avengers movies are for people to see the Avengers movies and nothing else. And it would neither make sense nor be useful to say ‘Oh and by the way remember me? I died!’”
Thanks for that Matt! I like what he had to say, and it makes a lot of sense.
You both are forgetting that it was Joss Whedon (along with his brother and sister in law) who created AoS to begin with, with the intention of being a spin off show to the movies, meaning it was meant to be part of the MCU continuity since the moment it was announced. If he really considered Coulson to be dead, then Joss shouldn’t have decided to bring back Coulson in the first place…There were many other actors who could fill Coulson’s shoes.
I may be forgetting…but how DARE you dis our beloved recapper and his memory? ;) My memory may be swiss cheese, but Matt is fantastic about filling in the details he told us earlier. ;)
No, his only appearance in a movie since his “death” in The Avengers was in Captain Marvel, which was obviously set long before his first appearance in Iron Man and probably was the cause of the “this isn’t my first rodeo” line.
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In hindsight breaking free does make sense, because every year AoS had to come up with a threat that was big enough for SHIELD to deal with, including some powered agents, but not big enough to call The Avengers.
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That said it would be great if the show ended with them joining SWORD and all leading their own teams in the future.
I knew he hadn’t been in any movies BUT Cap Marvel, but wondered since Fury’s appearance in the movie universe whether they “knew” about Coulson. In S1, the TV characters were the only ones who knew Fury was still alive, IIRC. Remember May’s secret Fury hotline? But Fury later showed up in the movies and was notably dusted after the snap.
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And I am hoping for the SWORD spin off too!
Rumor has it is that SWORD is going to be making their MCU debut in WandaVision on Disney+, their are set photos online that have the SWORD logo with Jimmy Woo and Monica Rambeau as possible agents but i’m holding out that maybe the SHIELD agents become SWORD agents in the finale which would be a really good way to wrap their story up and hopefully appear in future MCU projects.
SWORD is the easiest way to explain the post-credits scene in Far From Home, in my opinion. I definitely agree with you that it would be great if the reason this is the SHIELD team’s last mission is because most retire, but a few key figures become SWORD instead.
Sif also knew Coulson was alive and left it up to him to tell Thor he was alive. Which he didn’t.
The closest they came were winks and nods here and there. Fury talked about pulling the craft that saved everyone stuck on the piece of Sokovia out of mothballs with some friends. Hill obviously knows as well because she crossed between both worlds a few times. I think on AoS just before that she was seen asking Coulson for something. So that line on AoU tells us that Fury was working with Coulson to get it.
sweet lord some of you posters are frustrating … there’s not “two universes” or two worlds or whatever else some people say — it’s ALL just ONE MCU
and since 2013 yes the AOS show clearly wasn’t as closely tied to the films – but will some of you please stop thinking it all had to do animosity or whatever bs behind the scenes between the producers, etc
the MAIN REASON AOS wasn’t as represented in the films was because the films have ALWAYS been written BEFORE the tv scripts for ANY of the tv shows and until now with Disney+ (and Marvel basically having full 100% control of both content and release dates) everything can basically be synced up for crossover MUCH EASIER because Marvel doesn’t have to deal with other decision makers or schedules out of their control –
ie. ABC tv schedules, Netflix or Hulu or Freeform deciding when their tv shows will be released
EVERYTHING has always hinged on the distribution and production schedules of WHEN the scripts were written and filmed
the movies COULD NOT allude to stories on the tv shows BEFORE those tv scripts were ever written or especially before ABC or Netflix, etc greenlit the next season on tv
and IF the films made mention of ANYONE specific to the tv shows – it would automatically dictate the story the tv writers could tell with those characters
for some of you I implore you – try to stop thinking like fans (even though you are and that’s great) – but try to think like the writers on the tv and film productions and WHEN the scripts are written
plus to introduce ANY characters besides a nice but basically pointless cameo (like the actors from Community) … it all takes up valuable screen time in the films and if a cameo by an AOS characters isn’t pertinent to the story – it was never going to happen
but that has NEVER meant the tv stories weren’t all happening simultaneously to the films stories
Reminder: ALL the Netflix stories were NOT taking place in the “present” of the MCU – they all were taking place about 1 – 1.5 years previously to the films at the time
ie. Daredevil S1 directly gave the timeline when the Netflix shows started
end of rant (sorry)
A few counterpoints:
-There are totally two universes/timelines. There are actually a lot more than that. Tilda Swinton had a whole speech about it in Endgame. And AOS confirmed it in their most recent episode: they have branched off from main MCU continuity, though they may have started off there.
– Internal drama was totally responsible for the lack of cooperation between the films and the TV shows. It was kept mostly under wraps, but it was really messy w/ Feige and Loeb clashing. They could have found a way to make all of the shows integrate with the movies the same way that they make the movies integrate with each other – by mapping out all of the major plot beats years in advance. Impractical? Sure, but the MCU is built upon those kinds of organizational miracles. It wasn’t that it couldn’t happen. It just didn’t.
1) No. Until the start of S6 they were definitely in one universe/timeline. There are no divergences until then because of S6 time jumping a year after the S5 finale. The S5 finale was supposed to be closely timed with the onset of Infinity War.
2) The Feige-Loeb thing probably has a basis in fact. I do remember a quote from Feige to the point that you would never have to watch a Marvel TV show to understand what was going on in a Marvel Movie.
I think you might have misunderstood me — yes obviously the AOS characters eventually broke away from the main timeline of the films … (at the end of S4 when Enoch took them to the future) … but regardless … even when time traveling or anything else … it’s ALL still part of the MCU
the whole point being the MCU is ALL the films, ALL tv shows and even some prequel comic books that have been released over the years ….. it’s not “just” the films
but many people seem to only refer the films as “the MCU” but that’s not true
even if going off into alternate timelines/ universes/ dimensions, etc – anything – it’s all still part of the larger MCU … as was originally first shown in Dr. Strange … every time he died and returned to fight Dormammu — that was technically all alternate timelines each time
until DS finally got Dormammu to give up (and DS returned to the original timeline)
what many (most?) people need to alter is HOW they say things – ie:
I hope the AOS characters appear … in the MCU films
is it semantics … ? kind of but not exactly but it’s all about how they (certain fans) understand WHAT the MCU is – ie. that it’s ALL encompassing … same as the comic books have always been
and like the comic books the MCU – all the films, tv shows, Marvel One Shots & a few comic books …. it’s all designed for viewers to just pick and choose whatever they want to watch and not be completely reliant on knowing ALL the history of the previous films/ tv shows to simply enjoy the story of watching one film or show/ episode
but of course watching everything just makes it all that much more enjoyable
but again it’s ALL the MCU … regardless if it’s a movie or not
Even after all these years aside from Fury and Hill nobody in the movies (i.e The Avengers) seems to have any idea that Coulson survived NY.
May having a direct line to Fury happened before Fury “died” in Winter Soldier so at that time everybody knew that Fury was alive. After his “death” there were several people that new he was still alive among them Steve Rodgers, Maria Hill, Sam Wilson, Natasha Romanoff and Sharon Carter.
In the show technically it was supposed to be only Coulson and Agent Koeing that officially knew about Fury still being alive, but May (and possibly the rest of the team) was eventually brought in on the secret as well. Then of course Fury shows up in Age of Ultron revealing himself to still be alive to the rest of the Avengers.
Thank you. I am a geek, but not a super geek (which I mean as a compliment,) and I appreciate you folks that help to jog this aging mind with forgotten details. But one correction with the TV show–it was revealed in S1 that Fury was not sure he could “trust” Tahiti, which is why no one was supposed to know about that secret line, including Coulson.
Pretty much the reason why I didn’t continue watching after season 3. The show is ok, has its moments, but way to much mediocrity for me to stomach. Agents of SWORD will be in the MCU and I do wonder if any characters will cross-over. I doubt that though since they didn’t even discuss the snap.
I agree with Ming-Na Wen about the writers & character development in the later episodes. The writing is the absolute best & kept getting better & better! This is the only TV series that keeps my wife & I ,spellbound & amazed by the story development & dynamite acting!!! SAD to know its demise is coming too soon. Hope fully some of its characters will reappear somewhere in the Marvel universe, especially Agent Melinda May a real kick ass bad ass character, and actress!!!
I don’t care if the show follows the continuity of the movies or not because this show jumped the shark after Season 5. The show has become too silly yes even for this show. I am tired of all the alternate reality, time-travelling, space jumping junk. Glad that this pitiful show is ending soon because this show is just filler now!
…do you Comic Book?
Lol. . . I don’t think so based on the comment.
I don’t even thinks he ask watched this season at all it’s so good!!!
Since this show sucks now, I dont want any of these TV characters in the MCU movies timeline. Keep them all away!
Thanks for joining in the conversation!
SHIELD respected the Sokovia Accords more than any movie or Netflix show…
The movies only used it for the conflict in Civil War (Iron Man was the one pushing it and then helped Spider-Man break it), SHIELD saw it was a great plot point, and they did an amazing plot of hate groups.
I disagree. I liked the connection to the Marvel Movie MCU. I like the characters and still watch the show. However, I am disappointed with the plot lines the last few years. Last storyline I enjoyed was the Framework.
i still don’t think it was necessary nor furthered the story.
I will miss the show.
I was about ready to give up on season one when the tie in/twist happened. It was so cool, and it kept me watching until the end of season 3. By that point, I couldn’t handle the show much any more. I agree, they did feel constrained in trying to stay tied to the movies. But there was also the fact that they had this villain they weren’t willing to actually defeat. Sounds like the show got good after I gave up, but I just didn’t care any more.
I started watching the show because it was a part of the MCU, but that’s not what kept me watching all these years. I stayed because I fell in love with the characters on the show and I thought the storylines kept getting better (there was a couple arcs I didn’t care about, but other than that it’s been a fantastic ride). I care about the characters on Shield 100x more than any of the movie characters and I was glad when they stopped trying to fit in with the movies and focused on their own stories. Daisy Johnson is my favorite superhero. I will miss this show terribly.
This was the very reason I left after season 1. Once it was made know the show was just a B plot to the movies, I lost all interest. Not even my favorite marvel character Ghost Rider could convince me to come back. I only came back for the Agent Carter cameo, but got hooked for the rest of this season. Only if the show had been like this season from the beginning…..oh well. (In all honesty my biggest complaint was the Inhumans storyline/tie-in. Don’t like anything with the Inhumans. Dumb idea and cheap copy of X-Men. I still can’t believe Marvel still thinks the Inhumans will work. Every good run has an end.)
If the Fox sale had only happened a few years earlier, Daisy and all the rest could just have been mutants and it would have been so much simpler.
That’s doubtful. Mutants would have been deemed by Deige et al as movies only which would have hemmed in the writing if they were allowed to use mutants at all.
It’s nice for them to have that freedom and all, but…it doesn’t make any sense! One could strain to say that their time traveling adventures somehow separated them from proper continuity, but they never bother to give even the slightest motivation for it. Even as a throwaway line like, “Hey, by the way, Thanos was defeated.” Or set everything currently happening to well before the events of Infinity War. As it is, I still enjoy the show, but I’m always left with this thought in the back of my head about how none of this seems to carry much weight anymore.
I think there is some weight to what Ming-Na Wen says. It was almost impossible for the writers of AOS to keep up with the MCU. And, as much as I enjoyed the Maria Hill cameos, and the Captain America: The Winter Soldier connection/reveal (absolutely mind-blowing!) it was best for AOS to do its own thing. With that said, I really hope that the Series Finale ties into Avengers: Endgame. It would be a nice, appropriate way to end the series.
It may have hampered them but at the back of my mind I keep thinking if they don’t change things back to what they were then Thanos wins!
While I do agree that the show needed to tell their own stories, I don’t think they – with the exception to season 6 – actually broke away from the MCU continuity. As long it doesn’t contradict the movies (in a big way), I don’t mind if they retconned some elements of the movies. AoS is an awesome show (bought season 1 – 5 on DVD not that long ago), and I hope we will see these characters (and their respective cast members) back in some shape or form in the future…
Just because not mentioned in movies doesn’t mean some characters couldn’t know that the SHIELD team and Coulson were out there. “Welcome to Level 7!” … Coulson comes out of the shadows… Captain America was Level 8 according to Winter Soldier so by that point he could have known about Coulson.
Anyway now that Coulson is LMD it would be easier to explain in movies with a passing remark. Those that have seen the show know the back story, those that haven’t can just accept he’s not the same one who died in Avengers.
Also would be great to have Quake join the Avengers on a mission as just a hacker, and then surprise them with her powers during the mission!
while Daisy & Sousa (and Kora) or may be Mack & Yo-Yo may be seen again in the MCU
I have a feeling Coulson won’t be seen again (besides may be in the past before he died in Avengers)
the show gave him a fitting ending and as Clark ages, it lessens his chances appearing again — but anything is possible especially with Doctor Strange & the Multi-verse of Madness coming up eventually … where alternate universe/ timeline Coulson could be brought into the main timeline of the MCU (same as what happened with Gamora and will possibly happen with Loki)
I watched the entire run of AoS, and it was never the best comic book show on TV, but it certainly wasn’t the worst. It wasn’t even the worst Marvel show. But Feige’s comment about moviegoers never having to watch the show proves how one-sided the arrangement was. The only MCU movie I’ve ever watched in a theater was GotG2, and the only other MCU movie I’ve ever bought a copy of was GotG. The rest I wait to watch until I can catch them free on cable, which makes it all the more obvious that Feige was never trying to make the show stand on its own merits, but force the TV audience to show up on opening weekend for every single MCU movie or miss some crucial plot point that would throw the series into a blender like the Winter Soldier movie did.
I sympathize with the original cast, as it must have been terrible to try to plot out an entire season knowing that, on a specific date, you had to work in a reference that either felt like a stunt cameo or completely changed the course of the story. Any sort of delay would completely screw up the schedule. Natural disaster preempts your show for a week? Too bad. You better prepare for that up front, and if nothing happens it just means you’ll have to pause the show for a couple weeks until the movie it’s tied to is released (imagine what kind of havoc that would have played with the show during this pandemic). That can kill a show’s momentum.
To those arguing that the series never left the MCU, it really did. It may not have been completely separate from it, but it definitely split off from the continuity of the MCU into something like an alternate universe. The show started out under Marvel Studios, but very quickly they spun off a new studio to handle the TV show, at which point the MCU wouldn’t give AoS the time of day. Once the show wrapped, the TV studio was shut down and all TV production was rolled back into Marvel Studios under Feige’s oversight. The entire problem with trying to make AoS part of the MCU was that they gave it a different top boss who didn’t answer to Feige and expected them to get along. Now that he’s got the entire pie, you’re probably going to see two things happen. One is that there won’t be any of these grand shakeups in any of the MCU series. The other is that the MCU series probably won’t run anywhere near as long as AoS did. You’ll probably get a very short season or two (maybe three if it’s incredibly popular) and the series will make way for something else, because the streaming model is geared more towards drawing in new subscriptions more than retaining the ones they’ve got. They’ll be dropped onto D+ between theatrical releases, where there will be less pressure to answer for events that took place in the movies. With Cloak & Dagger fizzling out, and AoS concluding, there’s very little chance you’ll see another MCU series land on broadcast TV