Ann Mukherjee, CEO of Pernod Ricard US

Ann Mukherjee, CEO of Pernod Ricard US

We sat down with Ann Mukherjee, the CEO of Pernod Ricard NA. Prior to Pernod Ricard, Ann was the Global Chief Commercial Officer at SC Johnson, Chief Marketing Officer at Frito Lay among other leadership roles at PepsiCo, and managed a range of brands at Kraft Foods. Ann was recently named to the “Marketing Hall Of Fame” by the American Marketing Association and has driven breakout growth through insights and innovation. 

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What were the most important lessons learned from the early tragedies in her life?

I've had some really early craziness in my life. My first childhood memory was that of sexual assault when I was four years old. I saw my mother killed in front of me by a drunk driver. I faced a lot of abuse from my first husband, to the point where I couldn't have children. So ultimately when I married my incredible husband today and we had twins, it was like a miracle.

And when she was diagnosed with leukemia at the age of four, I thought my world was going to fall apart. But I have to tell you, I think as I've gone through all of these situations, I've learned a long time ago that it's never the stimulus. It's things are going to happen to you. And maybe I had more than some others, but things happen in life, so it's more the response. It's how are you going to deal with it? And I learned early on not to be the victim, because then I lose.

I learned early on not to be the victim, because then I lose.

So it's about taking it in, understanding what the response needs to be, and working through worst case scenarios, and trying to live with them and seeing what they mean. And I've learned lot of resiliency, and it's funny as we go through COVID it was almost like my life was training for COVID. It's about being resilient. It's about learning not to be perfect and knowing that it might lead to a different outcome than what you first anticipated.

And over time, I realized some of those outcomes were better than I could've ever imagined, but believing in yourself and believing there is always going to be a better tomorrow is really what got me through it.

What were the most important words of wisdom from her mother, who she saw pass away at a young age from a drunk driver?

Ann: What's interesting is, I've lived through those words of wisdom. What I've now come to realize is as I try to learn from others, I realize that most people don't even know their own gift. And so over time it's really helped me hone my purpose of being able to not only learn from someone, but to give them back their gift so they can understand not just how to make the possible possible, but really make the impossible possible, because the strength of the human spirit is just unbelievable.

Is there a time where she mentored someone and these words have really rung true?

Yeah. I know you're going to have Indra Nooyi as a speaker coming up. It's funny, Indra had coined a phrase at PepsiCo, and it really resonated with me. She said, "It's really important to cherish people." And I think people misunderstood what that meant. It isn't about hugging them. Cherishing meant that you need to have the courage to tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. And great mentors do that for you. Because it's really easy to have a friend who will make you feel better. This isn't about that. This is about unlocking potential. And sometimes unlocking potential is about saying things that are difficult to hear, but are profound. And so as I've worked with many, many leaders over the years, sometimes they get a little comfortable, and then I get into the scene and I'm like, "You've done well, but you're nowhere near what you could be. You've got another S-curve coming." And then you shake them up, right? They don't quite get the performance rating they wanted or expected, or you give them an assignment that like, "What do you mean this is my ..." It's about helping people and developing them. And I've always believed that when you develop someone, you develop them for life, not just for the company you work at. But if you truly, truly are a good leader, you care about the whole person.

What was the thing that she needed to hear, but didn't necessarily want to hear from Indra as she were rising?

What defines me is not my past. What defines me is what I'm capable for the future

Oh, there were many of those sessions because she cherished me a lot, which I'm forever grateful. I think what I'm most grateful for, and I think a lot of people miss this, we define ourselves from where we've come. It's what we know. We think it's what makes us who we are, the culture we grew up in, the family background we grew up in, the situations we grew up in. What she helped me see was what defines me is not my past. What defines me is what I'm capable for the future. And that's a really hard pivot to make because I think we find comfort or we rationalize our actions almost to the point where, "I can't help but be who I am because that's how I grew up." Well, that's the wrong answer. What you have to say is, "I can't figure out or get excited enough to think about who I could be based on who I am." And that's a really hard pivot to make. And I really do thank my years at PepsiCo. If I had not gone through that journey, I don't think I'd be where I am today and Indra has a large part to do with that.

What was the biggest failure she faced and what did she learn from it?

I have learned that failure is the S-curve to my growth. I have failed so many times with so many things. But I think my first real big failure came when I joined Booth, the business school at University of Chicago. Let me give you some context. I was joining what we used to call the GSB back then. And I had just gotten divorced from my first husband. It was six years of hell. My confidence level could not have been lower. And I was coming back to Chicago to kind of rebuild myself, right? And I remember this was going to be, I was going to change the world.

And so I remember taking one of my first courses, and it was a case course. And I'd never done case studies before, right? And so I'm Indian. I think some people might appreciate this. There should be a perfect answer to everything. 3.269, right? You're taught like there's always a perfect answer to everything. But it's a case. There is no perfect answer. It's about how you think. I didn't figure that out.

So every a case that I was submitting, I got an F. I'm like I've never gotten an F in my life. I'm like what is this? And I could not get help. It was not the best professor in the world. So I had a friend at another business school. And I was sitting there telling her about it. And she said, "Well, I've done this case that you're about to submit." Let me just send you my notes." I'm like, "Okay, fine. Let's see if that helps." So she sent the notes. Submitted my case.

And the professor called me the next day, and said, "You need to come and see me." I was like, man, I must have done really well. Professor's calling me. So I show up the next day, and he's like, "Yeah, you're meeting the dean tomorrow because we're starting proceedings to expel you." I was like, "Excuse me." And he is like, "Yeah, let me show you the answer key to the case. And let me show you your answer to the case." I was like, "What?" So the notes she sent me were basically the answer key to the case, which I didn't know.

So I go to see the dean the next day, Dean Harry Roberts, he's still there. And he says to me, "Tell me your side of the story." And I did. And he said, "Okay, so I'm going to ask you one question. And based on that answer, I'm going to decide whether to expel you or not." I was like, "Okay, bring it on." "What did you learn from this experience?" And I thought, wow, great question. And I thought about it. And I said, "Dean, I think for me, this is the first time in my life I understood the difference between being right and doing what is right. And I never understood the difference before." He said, "Good answer." He said, "You're not going to be expelled." And he ended up taking me in his lab courses and I helped him. We developed a great relationship.

But he said, "You're still going to fail the course because the final grade is determined on the final, and it's like 70% of the grade." I'm like, "Oh, okay." Next day I show up for the final, and guess what? It's another fricking case, right? So here I am, I got my blue book. Still don't know anything different. But this time I filled out the blue book based on what I thought was right.

When the grades came out, I got the highest score in the final. And I thought it was a pity grade from the professor. He's like, "I didn't even grade the exams. So what you got is what you got." And the epiphany went off. The epiphany was, if I would just believe in myself, just not try to perform to some sort of arbitrary expectation, but just do what I thought was right, that is far more important about getting ahead and for me to excel in the world than I ever gave myself credit for. And it honestly, it was the S-curve to my career.

What was the role of BCG's Demand Centric Growth approach to driving growth?

It was everything. I mean, it was the linchpin. I still remember the day, many of you know Rohan Sajdeh (BCG Managing Director and Senior Partner), and Rohan was in my office. So we had gotten through the crisis and at least we knew what happened. Now, we had to figure out, okay, how are we going to rebuild?

And I remember Rohan sitting in my office and he looked at me and he's like, "Ann, do you have any clue what really drives purchase on your brands?" And I'm like, "Sure, I do. Of course I do. I know what Cheetos stands for, and Doritos, and I know all that stuff." And the lovely Rohan, in a gentle way said to me, "With all due respect, Ann, you don't." And remember, demand science at that time was in a bit of its infancy. Hershey had done it and they were getting some really great wins.

And we were the experiment. Could that work at Frito? Everybody was skeptical. And then I saw the science and then I saw how it all came back. And it was like I was back at University of Chicago when I was trying to figure out what drove people. It was full circle for me, and that was the start of it was not just a consumer tool, it was a business operating tool. And it changed literally from us being a supply-driven organization to a demand-driven organization that we figured out how to supply.

And that simple shift, since then Frito has either been number one or number two in food and beverage growth. And it set a way of the business operating that still lasts today. It was an incredible journey.

What was the key mindset shift she made that enabled her to become CEO?

First of all, never knew I wanted to be a C-suite executive. Never, right? I'm one of those... You just, you do it, you learn, and you see what's the next door that opens up, right? I've always... Keep your head down and things will open up as you go through the journey. I mean, who knows after this? I could open a restaurant, I could go be a professor, or I could... Who the heck knows? I have no clue what my next chapter is going to be.

My advice to everybody is forget what you are trained to do. Forget what you are educated to do. Instead, decide what you want to do and go play to win

But I think that what I'd say to everybody is... That's why I keep saying don't define yourself based on who you think you should be, how you got trained to be. Think about who you could be based on what the future holds for you, right? Look, I didn't go to... I didn't have a silver spoon. I didn't. I have no credentials. I'm self-made, right? When I went to University of Chicago, I worked three jobs to get through undergrad. And so I don't have a rule book. People who go and have a certain school education and then university, and then you're supposed to go do this, I don't have that. So I have nothing to lose. I play to win. I don't play to lose. And my advice to everybody is forget what you are trained to do. Forget what you are educated to do. Instead, decide what you want to do and go play to win. Make up the rules as you go.

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