Insights from a 45+ Year Experienced Developer: Conversations with Rob Sovyae

I had the privilege of engaging in a thought-provoking conversation with the esteemed Mr. Rob Sovyae, an veteran software developer with over 45 years of experience. This unique opportunity to converse with someone of his caliber proved to be a highly enriching experience, which provided me with invaluable insights and perspectives on the field of software development. The 45-minute conversation proved to be a delightful and informative experience, allowing me to gain a deeper understanding of the nuances of the industry. 

As I embarked on this enlightening conversation with Rob, I was struck by his wealth of knowledge and experience in the field. Through his expert analysis and observations, I was able to gain a deeper appreciation of the intricacies involved in software development. Over the course of our conversation, Rob expounded on various aspects of the field, sharing his views on topics ranging from the emergence of free software to his involvement with the Rainbow Family. His deep understanding of the field, coupled with his years of experience, allowed him to offer insights and perspectives that are rarely encountered in today's fast-paced world of technology. This article is a reflection of my major takeaways from our conversation, and I believe that it will serve as a valuable resource for anyone seeking to gain a deeper understanding of the field of software development. 

Rob Savoye: Self-Taught C Programmer and Director of Engineering 

Rob started without a degree in computer science. He started programming in the mid-seventies. In that time, it was very difficult to get the job without a degree. He came from a poor family and got a job at student aid working in a geology department and one of his jobs was maintaining simple program that did geology sample something or other.  He started teaching himself programming and started to improve the program which turned out to be the full-time job working at the university computer lab.   

When he was at the college he used to work as an electrician, where his boss assumed anybody that was an electrician can do computer and so He learned how to write manufacturing software. Back then it used to be CNC machines (Computer Numerical Control). During that work he found that debugging was harder so he wrote a program that will draw the program on the screen for debugging which turned out to be great useful later.   

In the early 1980s, it was difficult to land a job without a degree. When he was searching for a stable job as he had a family, he struggled to find work and went on several interviews with prospective employers. One memorable interview was with two gentlemen who told him that if he could learn C programming, they would hire him once they secured funding in a few weeks. With this opportunity in mind, he purchased one of the original IBM PCs and got to work teaching himself C programming. 

In just a couple of weeks, he became proficient enough in C programming to be offered a job as a C programmer. At the start-up, lack of experience was not a concern; what mattered most was what he could produce. He started writing a lot of software and gained valuable knowledge about compilers and operating systems, eventually becoming the director of engineering within three years. 

During his time at the start-up, he encountered a new challenge - the high cost of compilers. At that time, compilers cost $10,000 per engineer, which made it difficult for the start-up to afford them for all of their engineers. However, he stumbled across a more affordable alternative called GCC, which allowed them to continue building and expanding their start-up. 

Linux and Android: The Impact of Open Source on Modern Computing 

In the early 1990s, a Finnish computer science student named Linus Torvalds set out to create a free and open-source operating system kernel that would run on Intel 386 processors. This kernel, known as Linux, was initially a message passing operating system that underwent significant changes thanks to Torvalds' collaboration with developers around the world. Today, Linux is one of the most widely used operating systems in the world, powering everything from supercomputers to smartphones. 

One of the key features of Linux is its monolithic architecture, which allows it to run as a single large program rather than a collection of smaller programs. This architecture was the subject of a contentious debate between Torvalds and the creator of MINIX, an operating system that inspired Linux. Despite the disagreement, Linux emerged as a full stack operating system that quickly gained popularity among developers. 

Apple's iPhone may have revolutionized the smartphone industry, but it was Android that brought open-source software to mobile devices. Android is a Linux kernel-based operating system that powers billions of smartphones around the world. Like Linux, Android owes its success to the open-source community that has contributed to its development. 

In the early days of smartphones, the operating systems used on these devices were proprietary, closed-source software that made it difficult for developers to create new applications or modify existing ones. The introduction of Android changed all that by providing developers with an open-source platform that could be easily customized and modified to suit their needs. 

The impact of Android on the mobile industry cannot be overstated. Today, Android is the most widely used operating system for smartphones and has spawned an entire ecosystem of apps, games, and services. The open-source nature of Android has also encouraged innovation and competition, resulting in a more diverse and dynamic marketplace. 

But Android's success would not have been possible without the work of developers who spent countless hours creating software that could run on embedded devices. These developers were able to leverage their experience with Linux to create custom operating systems that could run on smartphones and other mobile devices. 

One of the challenges of adapting Linux for mobile devices was the need to shrink the operating system to fit on smaller devices with less powerful hardware. This required developers to write efficient code and remove unnecessary features to create a minimal version of the operating system that could run on mobile devices. 

Developers also had to create specialized software, such as device drivers and networking code, to make Linux work on smartphones. This required extensive testing on prototypes and other hardware to ensure compatibility and performance. 

Android also required modifications to work more like a real-time operating system. To accomplish this, developers created a feature called delayed interruptions that allowed Android to better manage resources and prioritize tasks. 

In conclusion, the impact of open-source software on modern computing cannot be overstated. Linux and Android are just two examples of how collaboration and community-driven development can create powerful software that is accessible to everyone. These operating systems have changed the way we use computers and smartphones, and they will continue to shape the future of technology. 

The Power of Open Source: A Story of Ganesh and Adobe Flash 

In the early 2000s, Rob Savoye found himself working at NASA, focusing on Linux and compiler work. He worked on projects such as the Advanced Aviation team, the Florida US Air traffic control system for Linux, and others. However, during that administration in the US, the government wanted NASA to stop doing engineering work and instead hire contractors. This led to layoffs and frustration with the bureaucracy, leading Rob to start a free software project called Ganesh. 

Ganesh was a reverse-engineered version of the Adobe Flash Player that focused on embedded devices and ran on computer chips that the Adobe Flash Player did not support. Although the project lost funding when Steve Jobs announced that he did not support Flash anymore on early iPhones, it continued for several years. Rob started a nonprofit organization and received funding for many years. Ganesh became the only way that Linux users could go to YouTube, and it was used in many cheap media players in Asia to play old Flash games. 

One of the advantages of open-source software is that it does not go away. Even though the Ganesh project has been dead for a long time, its code still exists and is still used in various ways. Rob and his team did a lot of weird stuff with Ganesh, including hardware decoding for playing video with low CPU loads, which Adobe later stole from them. Rob had discussions with Adobe attorneys after receiving a DMCA takedown letter, but it turned out that they had followed clean room reverse engineering procedures, and they had not done anything illegal. 

The Ganesh project was a testament to the power of open-source software. By making the code available to anyone, Rob and his team were able to create something that was used in ways they never imagined. They were able to take on a big company like Adobe and create a better design. Open-source software allows people to build upon the work of others, and it provides an alternative to closed-source software. 

In conclusion, the story of Ganesh and Adobe Flash Player is a great example of the power of open-source software. It shows that anyone can create something that can be used in ways they never imagined. It also shows that open-source software can be used to take on big companies and create something better. The Ganesh project may be dead, but its legacy lives on. 

Rob Savoye: Engineer, Climber 

For over 30 years, Rob Savoye has been involved in domestic and international disaster response, using his skills as an engineer to build radio networks, water filtration systems, and medical clinics in the aftermath of hurricanes and other natural disasters. Savoye's experience has made him a valuable member of the disaster response community, and his love of climbing has proven useful in the field. 

Savoye's work with disaster response has led him to become involved with both the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) and NAXA. HOT is an organization that uses open mapping to support disaster response and community development. With HOT, Savoye is involved in a project focused on large-scale field mapping, which has already been implemented in Turkey and tested in Zanzibar and Dominica. The project involves field data collection, software development using open data kit, and converting the data to open street map data quality validation. In addition to this, Savoye and his team are involved in organizing hundreds of people to map in the field, particularly in response to earthquakes. 

Savoye's work with NAXA focuses on using technology and innovation to address complex global challenges. The current project he is working on with NAXA is also focused on large-scale field mapping, and involves field data collection, software development, and community-driven efforts to map in the field. The project has the potential to make a significant impact in disaster response efforts around the world. 

Savoye's experience as an engineer and climber has allowed him to make valuable contributions to disaster response and community development efforts. His involvement with both HOT and NAXA highlights the importance of using technology and community-driven efforts to address global challenges. Through his work, Savoye is helping to make the world a better place on disaster response and mapping project at a time. 

 Rob Savoye's Contributions to the World of Cross-Compilers and Testing Frameworks 

Rob Savoye is a well-known software engineer who has worked on a variety of projects throughout his career. One of his most notable contributions was his work on the ARMv8 architecture while he was at ARM. ARM (Advanced RISC Machines) is a British semiconductor and software design company that is best known for designing and licensing the architecture of microprocessors used in mobile devices, among other applications. 

While working at ARM, Savoye was part of the team that worked on the ARMv8 architecture, which is a 64-bit instruction set architecture designed to offer higher performance, improved security, and increased scalability compared to earlier versions of the ARM architecture. Specifically, he worked on the transition from 32-bit to 64-bit and on the GCC compiler toolchain for ARMv8. 

Savoye was also involved in developing a tool for building cross compilers, which is now known as the Advanced Build Environment (ABET). This tool allows developers to automate the process of building cross compilers, which can be a tedious and time-consuming process. 

In addition to his work on ARMv8, Savoye also developed the regression testing system for GCC. This system was developed as part of his work on Deja GNU, an automated testing framework for the GNU toolchain. Even today, more than 30 years later, Savoye is still working on Deja GNU and other related projects. 

Somewhere in the process of working on these projects, Savoye also became involved with the development of Open St. Map Software. This work eventually led him to Hot, a company that specializes in open-source software development. 

Overall, Rob Savoye's contributions to the software industry have been significant, and his work has helped to shape the tools and technologies that are used by developers around the world today. 

From Volunteer Firefighting to Mapping in Nepal 

Rob Savoye is a man with diverse interests and skills. From being a volunteer firefighter in a remote rural area to climbing frozen waterfalls, he has done it all. However, his engineering background led him to take up a new challenge – fixing the outdated maps used by his fire department. 

Savoye worked extensively on field data collection and Open Street Map software to improve the maps used by his department. He also developed his own software for data imports and spent a lot of time improving maps for emergency response purposes, including big wall and backcountry rescue. He even gave a talk at the State of the Map US event about his project called OSM for Firefighting. 

But Savoye's interests were not limited to firefighting and mapping. He is also an avid climber, particularly of frozen waterfalls, which is a sub-sport of mountaineering. While climbing in Nepal, Savoye felt the need to do something more useful than just being a tourist. He returned to Nepal to offer his skills to Kathmandu Living Labs, where he spent a lot of time tracking and climbing, updating maps in Langtang and Gorka region, and testing some of the software he had written. 

However, Savoye's journey was not without its challenges. He was in Kathmandu when the airport was closed due to COVID-19, leaving him stranded. It was during this time that he met some people who introduced him to the work of Kathmandu Living Labs. 

Savoye's passion for firefighting, climbing, and mapping has led him on a unique and fulfilling journey. His dedication to improving maps for emergency response purposes and his willingness to offer his skills for the betterment of others are truly inspiring. 

Rob, the Engineer: 45+ Years of Creative Solutions and Hacking 

Rob, with over 45 years of experience in the engineering field, has witnessed the evolution of the term "hacker" from its original meaning of a creative problem solver to its negative connotation today. Despite this shift in perception, Rob's business card once proudly bore the label of "hacker," a title he saw as the epitome of a good engineer. 

Over the years, Rob's expertise has expanded beyond software development to include radio networks, mapping, and various electrical systems. He describes himself as an engineer who is not afraid to live in a tent, combining his passion for engineering with his love for climbing and outdoor adventures. 

Despite the evolution of the term "hacker," Rob's passion for creative solutions and problem-solving has remained unwavering. 

The Story of ECOS: A Challenging Project in Operating System Design 

Rob has worked on various projects in the field of software engineering, embedded devices, and disaster response. Among all the projects he has worked on, one of the most challenging and significant ones is the development of ECOS, a hard real-time operating system. 

In the late 90s, when Rob and his team were heavily involved in embedded devices, they received a contract from a Japanese government industry consortium to replace an operating system called Micro Itron, which was written in 8-bit assembly language, with a new operating system that could run on 32-bit microprocessors. The consortium wanted the new operating system to be written in C++ and have the same level of real-time determinism as Micro Itron. 

Rob and his team named the new operating system ECOS and raised three and a half million dollars for the project. They hired 27 engineers and developed and delivered the software from scratch in just eight months, despite not having the hardware they needed for the first six months. This was a significant achievement in the computer industry, where such projects usually take years to complete. 

ECOS is a hard real-time deterministic operating system, which means that every operation that needs to happen within a certain timeframe must always happen within that timeframe. For instance, if an operation needs to happen within 180 milliseconds, it must always happen within that time frame. This makes the operating system ideal for running robotics and automation in factories. 

After completing the project, Rob and his team sold the operating system to Red Hat, who created a standalone company called Ecocentric to maintain and develop the software. Today, ECOS is still heavily used in Japanese factories and robotics and is also used in many consumer devices, such as laser printers. 

The development of ECOS was a challenging project, but it showcased Rob's expertise in operating system design and his ability to lead a team of engineers to complete a complex project within a tight deadline. It also highlighted the importance of real-time determinism in operating systems and its use in running robotics and automation in factories. 

In conclusion, the story of ECOS is a testament to Rob's technical skills and his ability to deliver high-quality software under challenging circumstances. It is an inspiring example of how determination, hard work, and expertise can overcome even the most daunting challenges in software engineering. 

Question: As a developer becomes more experienced and knowledgeable, do they begin to possess a certain level of expertise that seems like magic to others? 

Answer: According to Rob, with a long career comes an understanding of all the layers involved in the development process. While it may not necessarily look like magic, he believes that being able to think through all the layers and troubleshoot bugs more effectively is one of the advantages of having a lot of experience. 

In addition to technical knowledge, Rob also highlights the importance of learning from mistakes. He notes that as a good engineer, you often learn more about what you got wrong than what you did right. This kind of learning only comes from having a long career and experiencing a range of software practices, both good and bad. 

It is clear that experience and expertise are crucial for developers looking to improve their skills and take on more challenging projects. With every mistake made and lesson learned, developers become more adept at their craft and possess a deep understanding of the intricacies involved in creating high-quality software. 

For those just starting out, it is important to remember that learning from mistakes is a natural part of the process. With dedication and perseverance, anyone can develop the skills needed to become an expert in their field. As Rob's career shows, the journey to becoming a skilled developer is a long and challenging one, but one that ultimately yields great rewards. 

Expert Developers and the Importance of Learning Core Programming Layers 

As technology advances, it is easy for developers to rely on high-level frameworks and tools to quickly build projects. But is this enough to build a successful career in programming? When asked whether new developers should start learning from the core programming layers, or push forward with technology, Rob, an experienced developer, gave a nuanced answer. 

Rob acknowledges the advantages of using frameworks - it can save time and effort in building large projects. However, he also emphasizes the importance of understanding the layers and knowing how to debug code. This skill set is essential for a successful career in programming, as it allows developers to identify and solve problems efficiently. 

According to Rob, learning the layers of the framework is useful, even if not to the same level of detail that he has learned. Having an idea of how the code works and where the bugs might be is invaluable, especially when filing bug reports for open-source projects. By providing detailed bug reports, developers increase the likelihood of getting the issues fixed quickly 

In conclusion, while using high-level frameworks and tools can be helpful, learning the core programming layers is still essential for any developer's career. Understanding the layers and debugging skills will enable developers to build better code and solve complex problems more efficiently. By learning from past mistakes and continually improving their skills, developers can excel in the rapidly evolving world of technology. 

The Importance of Understanding Core Programming Layers for Developers 

Aspiring developers face the age-old question of whether to dive deep into the core programming layers or to use existing frameworks and technologies to build their projects.

According to Rob, frameworks can be incredibly useful for quickly accomplishing big projects by leveraging the work that has already been done by others. However, he also emphasized the importance of understanding the layers and how everything works. Debugging, in particular, is an obscure skill set that is crucial to learn. "People just write code, and sometimes when they have bugs, they just want to rip their hair out," Rob noted. 

For a truly successful career, Rob believes that learning how to debug is essential. While not every job will require an in-depth understanding of all the layers of the frameworks you use, knowing how to do so can be useful. Rob suggested that aspiring developers take the time to look at the source code of the frameworks they use. "If you're between jobs or have free time, it's worth looking at the actual source code of the frameworks you use," he advised. "You may find that reading the code and understanding how it works will help you identify problems faster." 

In conclusion, Rob emphasized that both approaches have their merits, and aspiring developers should find a balance between the two. "It's kind of like a yes and no," he said. "One advantage of the framework is that you can accomplish really big projects relatively quickly. But I really think that for a truly successful career, learning how to debug is an obscure skill set that is essential to master." 

Free Software Foundation Honors Rob with Lifetime Achievement Award 

The Free Software Foundation (FSF) recently honored Rob, a veteran software engineer with decades of experience, with a Lifetime Achievement Award for his contributions to the advancement of free software. 

Rob's work on the GNU toolchain and embedded systems was recognized by the FSF, who praised his commitment to the principles of free software. "Having put 35 years into running free software, actually having been recognized, it was kind of nice," Rob said of the award. 

The award ceremony was held in 2010. While he has won other awards throughout his career, Rob described this one as "special," noting his longstanding involvement in the free software community. 

As a "good new project person," Rob has become well-known in the Free Software Foundation world, and his contributions to various projects have helped to advance the principles of free software. He has also been a vocal advocate for open-source software, often speaking at conferences and events on the importance of free and open technologies. 

The FSF's Lifetime Achievement Award is a testament to Rob's dedication to the principles of free software and his contributions to the field. "It was a fun one," he said of the honor. "I'm grateful to the Free Software Foundation for the recognition and for all they do to advance the cause of free software." 

Technology and its Future: A Dinosaur's Perspective 

Rob discussed his thoughts on technological advancement and his personal focus on software development that benefits people. When asked about his views on where technological advancement is projected in the future, Rob shared that he has no plans to get into artificial intelligence or become a full stack developer. 

Rob humorously referred to himself as a dinosaur, saying that a lot of his skills are from the past, but what he enjoys doing is working on software that benefits people. This is why he likes working for humanitarian organizations and doing work with OpenStreetMap, a mapping platform that has benefits for emergency response, recreational use, and businesses. 

The conversation then turned to the topic of technological advancements that have taken place in the past. When asked about where he sees technology in the next 10 years, he said that he has no idea. He joked that he will be in his 70s by then and he does not totally care. Rob recounted discussions from 30 years ago about video conferencing, which many believed would require too much bandwidth. Now, video conferencing is commonplace, and people can even download and watch live concerts on their phones through wireless connections. 

Despite these advancements, Rob admits that he has no idea where technology will be in even just 10 years. The industry is moving at an incredibly fast pace, and some of the discussions around AI and how it will revolutionize everything are both exciting and intimidating. 

In the end, Rob believes that technology can be good as long as it benefits people. For him, that is the most important aspect of software development. 

The Pros and Cons of Working in Open Source

Open-source software has been a game-changer in the technology industry, allowing developers to collaborate and build software that is free and accessible to everyone. For many developers, the most beneficial aspect of working in open-source projects is the community. This sense of collaboration and teamwork, especially in the early stages of a project, is what makes it so enjoyable for many. The community provides a support network, and developers can work with people they have never worked with before, bringing new perspectives to the table. 

However, as with any model, there are drawbacks. Open source has become a business model for many companies, and this has led to some issues. Many companies claim to be doing open source, but they use weird licensing and agreements that do not align with the true spirit of open source. For instance, the OpenAI project started as an open-source software and open data model project, but now they are suing each other, and everything they do requires payment, which is contrary to the principles of open source. 

One of the biggest problems in open source is when managers from other companies with a corporate background are hired, and all they want to do is make money. While making money is essential, some believe that it is incompatible with the philosophy of open source. Many companies offer a "free" version of the software, but if users want extra features, they must pay for it. This practice is known as "open core," and it can be a way for companies to make money, but it is not in the true spirit of open source. 

Despite these issues, some companies have changed their attitudes towards open source. Microsoft, for instance, once hated all those working on Linux, and they sued them, but now they have shipped their own version of Linux. Apple, on the other hand, has gone in the opposite direction. Ultimately, for many developers, the sense of community and collaboration that open-source software provides is the most rewarding part, and the opportunity to create software that can help others is an excellent motivator. 

The Rainbow Family: A Spiritual Movement of Community Builders 

The Rainbow Family is a spiritual movement that has been in existence since the early 1970s. Founded by a group of like-minded individuals, the Rainbow Family has since grown into a large and elite community that focuses on building strong, supportive communities. Despite being labeled as a religion by some, the Rainbow Family considers itself to be a spiritual movement with a focus on building communities. 

One of the original members of the Rainbow Family, Rob, spoke about the group's values and beliefs. According to him, the Rainbow Family's primary focus is on building communities and helping people. The group has been organizing gatherings for over 50 years in remote areas where they practice their spirituality and build a strong sense of community. 

The Rainbow Family has also formed its own disaster response team. They believe that their spirituality and community-building efforts can benefit people in times of crisis. The group's values of benefiting people and building communities have also influenced other industries, such as software development. 

In the 80s and early 90s, Rob was maintaining FTP and Gopher Archive Mountain photos, which he later turned into a website. The Rainbow Family's community-building efforts and their belief in public benefit inspired Rob to create free software that aimed to help people without worrying about making money. 

The Rainbow Family's community-building efforts, spirituality, and dedication to helping people have stood the test of time. The group has been running continuously since the early 1970s, and their website is one of the oldest continuously running websites on the planet. Despite being founded decades ago, the Rainbow Family continues to inspire and influence individuals and communities worldwide.

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