Life-changing performance upgrade using Wim Hof method, with Ravi Modha - HS#22

Dive into the world of cold exposure and breathwork with Ravi Modha ! In episode 22 of HockeyStick Show , Ravi shares his incredible journey from corporate finance in global cities to coaching professionals in stress management and personal growth. He also dives into how the Wim Hof Method can enhance your resilience, boost your mood, and help you achieve balance in both your professional and personal life. 🙌

From icy baths to mindful breathing techniques, this is an episode you won't want to miss if you plan on building a healthier you!

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Summary

In the bustling world of corporate finance, one might not expect to find an expert in life and performance coaching. Yet, Ravi Modha seamlessly balances both professions.

As a full-time corporate finance professional, Ravi has navigated the intricate corridors of investment banking in London and New York, and currently works with Apollo Global’s high-grade capital solutions team.

But that's just one side of his story. Ravi is also a dedicated life and performance coach, helping professionals like himself reach their full potential by managing stress and fostering sustainable growth in both personal and career domains.

The Duality of Work and Life

Miko Pawlikowski 🎙️ opens the conversation by posing a question many are curious about: “Ravi, how are you doing both of these things at the same time?”

Ravi’s response brings to light the transformative power of the Wim Hof Method, which combines breathwork, cold exposure, and a committed mindset. Ravi explains, “The Wim Hof method has really helped me enhance my daily life energy, my limiting beliefs, and my reconditioning of where I wanted to push my life.”

Mindset Over Matter

For Ravi, the method is not just a tool for physical adaptation but also a profound psychological game-changer. He mentions how integrating these practices into his routine has provided him a competitive edge without the clash of competing priorities. “It’s about creating the right tools and mindsets to build capacity and capability.”

The Wim Hof Method Explained

Miko delves deeper, asking Ravi to summarize the essence of the Wim Hof Method. Ravi aptly encapsulates it as “a natural path to a more optimal state of mind and body,” aimed at igniting the inner power within us all. He elaborates on how modern life has numbed our body's innate stress responses due to constant, comfortable environments, and how the Wim Hof Method helps reawaken these responses.

Science-Backed Benefits

For those skeptical about such methods, Ravi brings robust scientific backing to the table. Studies, including one from 2014, demonstrate how controlled breathing techniques can activate the sympathetic nervous system, improve stress resilience, and enhance immune responses. Another study from 2016 highlights the health benefits of cold showers, including increased energy, better blood circulation, and boosted immune function through white blood cell count.

Practical Applications: A Breathing Demo

One of the highlights of the conversation is Ravi guiding Miko and his audience through a breathing exercise from the Wim Hof Method. He emphasizes the importance of a safe, comfortable setting and explains the steps meticulously. Experiencing the breathing exercise leads to an eye-opening realization for Miko about the ease of breath-holding and the subsequent feeling of zen and relaxation.

Incorporating Breathing and Cold Exposure

Ravi recommends integrating these practices into one's daily routine. He practices breathwork every morning, often followed by cold exposure to start the day with enhanced energy and reduced stress. He also uses breathwork as a tool for acute stress management before important meetings or presentations.

Building Resilience and Mindfulness

The third pillar, mindset, underpins the other two practices. Ravi speaks about the immense benefits of developing willpower, resilience, and mindfulness through these methods. He advocates for a gradual introduction to cold exposure, starting with short bursts of cold water at the end of a hot shower, gradually building up tolerance.

Personal Transformation and Professional Growth

Sharing his personal journey, Ravi recounts how a significant heartbreak led him to discover the Wim Hof Method, which catalyzed a profound personal transformation. This change rekindled his relationship, culminating in marriage, and inspired him to pursue a coaching career. His story is a testament to the transformative power of combining breathwork, cold exposure, and a positive mindset.

Finding Ravi Modha

For those interested in experiencing these benefits, Ravi is based in London and offers one-on-one coaching, workshops, and retreats across the UK. He shares valuable insights and content on breath and cold exposure, as well as mindset training on LinkedIn, making it a great place to connect with him and learn more.

Conclusion

Ravi Modha ’s unique blend of corporate finance expertise and life coaching skills offers an inspiring example of how integrating holistic practices into our lives can lead to profound personal and professional growth. Whether through breathwork, cold exposure, or cultivating a resilient mindset, Ravi’s story encourages us all to explore our potential and embrace a more balanced, fulfilling life.

Thank you for joining us in this exploration. Be sure to connect with Ravi Modha on LinkedIn and give these transformative practices a try!

Resources

Wim Hof method science explained

Effects of voluntary hyperventilation on glucose, free fatty acids and several glucostatic hormones

The Effect of Cold Showering on Health and Work: A Randomized Controlled Trial

The Effect of Diaphragmatic Breathing on Attention, Negative Affect and Stress in Healthy Adults

Wim Hof Method Guided Breathing for Beginners (3 Rounds Slow Pace) - YouTube

Transcript

Ravi Modha: [00:00:00] A simple lifestyle change, like a cold shower, could have profound effects on both physical . and mental well being. The body's ability and the mind's ability to adapt, be creative, to really react to the stress that's put on it, it's super capable. And it's just about giving it the right environment to be able to do that.

Ravi Modha: Being able to retrain the body and how to breathe right, for me personally, complete game changer. There's nothing that I now feel isn't within my realm or my comfort zone when it comes to stress and what I can deal with. What happens when you enter? 15 degree water or below is that one of the chemical responses from your body is a 250 percent increase in dopamine level.

Ravi Modha: I wanted to become a coach in the Wim Hof method because it literally changed my life.

Miko Pawlikowski: Ravi lives two lives at once. He's a full time corporate finance professional. He spent the vast majority of his career so far in the [00:01:00] corporate investment banking across London, New York, and he's currently working for Apollo Global in their high grade capital solutions team, providing long term strategic investment capital to large global corporations.

Miko Pawlikowski: But he's also a life and performance coach. He helps. Corporate professionals, I'm guessing much like himself, achieve full potential, manage stress and achieve growth, sustainable growth, both in personal and career lives. Ravi is certified Mindvalley coach and trained as a Wim Hof Method Instructor, which is quite a resume.

Miko Pawlikowski: Ravi, how are you doing both of these things at the same time? 

Ravi Modha: Thank you for having me on. Really grateful to be here with you. it's a question I get asked a lot, and the crux of it is the Wim Hof method for me, in terms of the breath work, the cold exposure, and the mindset applicability, which we'll get into a little bit later, has really helped me to enhance my [00:02:00] mood, my daily life energy, my limiting beliefs and reconditioning of where I wanted to push my life.

Ravi Modha: And it's given me, I guess, an up leveling and an up skilling. In the way that I'm going about my every single day. and it's not that it isn't a challenge at times and this idea of finding work life balance, spinning all the plates at once.it doesn't come easy, but having the right tools, which I'm hoping that folks will experience today with us has been super transformative for me in terms of being able to build my capacity, was also enhancing my capability across.

Ravi Modha: The daily work life and then some of the things I'm super passionate about as well. 

Miko Pawlikowski: So it's basically a competitive advantage rather than competing priorities. 

Ravi Modha: Yeah, exactly. It's a nice way to think about it and it's a competitive advantage that everybody should have access to. Now the biggest applicability with all of this comes down to mindset. obviously where you're at in your trajectory in terms of your [00:03:00] preexisting .. 

Ravi Modha: Beliefs, maybe how present you are to change and also where you want to push yourself, outside of your comfort zone.

Ravi Modha: particularly doing things like ice baths, cold showers. maybe meeting up with new people, putting yourself in challenging positions just tends to expand that consciousness and that mind approach. And that's what's really been driving that competitive edge for me. on a daily basis.

Miko Pawlikowski: Oh, wow. Okay. So you already dropped a few things here. So a lot of people listening to this will be just like me, their software engineers, they're always interested in improving their workflow and improving themselves. And they're curious people who want to hack things. And, they probably have heard of Wim Hof in some context, probably someone doing ice baths and, claiming that this is improving their lives and making them better at everything.

Miko Pawlikowski: But if you were to describe to us in two sentences, what. Is Wim Hof method, really?

Ravi Modha: there's a lot of, as you say, press and media coverage around cold around breath work [00:04:00] around Wim Hof himself. But Wim Hof method, if I were to sum it up, is a natural path to a more optimal state of mind and body.if you unpack that slightly, what it means is, it's about igniting the inner existing power that is within us all and aligning it to be in the most present moment so you can start to push your body, your physiology, your neurology, and your biochemistry, not even to new levels, but actually to pre existing levels that would have been with us at birth. if you think about the time we were born up until now, and let's say some of the folks listening are in their mid thirties or early forties, there's probably been a rhetoric around temperature and cold. So being raised, particularly in the UK, for example, I was always told, if you go outside, make sure you wrap up, because otherwise you'll catch a cold. So what we'd argue with the Wim Hof method is that over time, because we've [00:05:00] had such beautiful technological industrialization change, we've also become less susceptible to stress in the sense that you, me, and all our listeners here today, Could go the whole day without actually experiencing the real temperatures outside.

Ravi Modha: in your home, or where I'm at right now, maybe the AC is on, or the heating's on, it's a certain temperature, maybe you're commuting to work and traveling in the trains or taxis, certain temperature, you're wearing X amount of clothing, when you get in the office, if you're an office worker, again, certain temperature.

Ravi Modha: If you think about that on a daily basis over the last 30, 40 years of your life, your body's innate receptors that are there to challenge the body in terms of changing to certain temperatures in particular, start to go more and more numb. And that's why you hear a lot of people say, I hate the cold.

Ravi Modha: the cold isn't for me. I've had bad experiences with the cold. I have [00:06:00] poor blood circulation in my hands and feet. They're always cold. That's really your body stress response, not being triggered in the right way, which is a natural way within us all. And the Wim Hof method is about acutely stressing the body, i.e. giving it the right dosage of stress so that those innate receptors become alive again, and they start to be challenged, and they start to be responded to. So it's about bringing us back to where we were originally at birth, to resetting our systems. And specifically, we're talking about the central nervous system, the immune system.

Ravi Modha: And the hormonal system, which we can get into as well. 

Miko Pawlikowski: So I think for anybody coming from the science background, the first thing they're gonna do is push back a little bit and say, okay, oh,whoa, that sounds cool, but I've also seen Liver King who was claiming that he was only living on, raw meat and eating liver. What's the science back in all of this? 

Ravi Modha: it's a great question and something that we should really [00:07:00] focus on. there are a ton of studies out there, particularly on the Wim Hof method, but then also in cold and breath. And just to reset a little bit, just for the folks who aren't as familiar, the three key pillars of the Wim Hof method are cold exposure, breath work, and it's underpinned by a committed mindset because these things are difficult to do. maybe I'll just focus on a couple of studies that are out there. And what they're focused on and what maybe we can leave these in the links as well as if people want to research the papers themselves a little bit more. the 1st, what I mentioned is a study from 2014, and it's about the voluntary activation of the central nervous system. And so this study showed how using controlled breathing techniques can help you voluntarily activate your sympathetic nervous system. So you guys may have heard of the fight or flight mode or the rest and digest. This is the nervous system state that we tend to flip flop in and out of at any moment in time. 

Miko Pawlikowski: It showed that you [00:08:00] can improve your resilience against stress by daily life stress and even enhance your immune responses. So this is over 10 years ago, but it was a start of an insight, an opening of new doors, managing stress, improving mental health, and also potentially at a time with inflammation related conditions. And inflammation can lead to a lot of the autoimmune conditions that we see today. So that study was really about learning to tap into the body's hidden potential. And that was back in 2014. 

Ravi Modha: was that the study when they injected them with some kind of deactivated virus and they were trying to see if there was any difference in how they respond to that, for those who do the method and who don't? Yes, exactly. So there was an injection of E.coli, a dead bacteria, into a test group who had been practicing the breathing techniques of the Wim Hof method. And then the same E. coli was injected into the folks that hadn't. [00:09:00] And what was very clear is that the folks who hadn't went quickly into fever and were basically in bed bound for the day.

Ravi Modha: Whereas the folks in the test group who had been practicing the consistent breathing techniques really only showed up with a very mild headache or very light symptoms to your point, learning to tap into the body's potential and boosting the immune response all through the amount of oxygen we're getting into the body and the amount of carbon dioxide that's being released. And that was done at a university in the Netherlands with Wim Hof.

Ravi Modha: And then another one worth mentioning, I think, is,something that's probably applicable to a lot of people who have tried the cold or maybe want to and that is cold showers, which, most of us have usually have access to in our homes.

Ravi Modha: and there was a study done in 2016, It was called "cold showers. The surprising health benefits". and again, we can link this in the source, but essentially what it was saying is that cold showers do a lot more than just wake you up. And the studies showed that regular cold exposure with a test group [00:10:00] led to increased energy. improved blood circulation and even a boost to the immune system through the white blood cell count. So this was highlighting that a simple lifestyle change like a cold shower could have profound effects on both physical and mental well being. turning that discomfort, if you like, into a pathway to health. then maybe the final one worth mentioning is, I don't want to overload people with the science, was the effects of hyperventilation on hormones, and this was done way back in 2001 and hyperventilation, is, essentially a controlled way of breathing faster and deeper into the body. And that study highlight the physiological effects of hyperventilation and what that did to glucose levels, insulin levels and stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline and the effects that hyperventilation had also on freeing fatty acids, which can lead to quite dramatic hormonal shifts 

Miko Pawlikowski: I think from my perspective, this is really what makes a massive difference, because if you go on the [00:11:00] internet, it's wild. You're gonna find somebody who says basically anything that you can imagine. And also, specifically Wim Hof, and I'm gonna ask you how that was meeting the guy. The first impressions I had of him were a little bit woo.

Miko Pawlikowski: Let's be honest here. Like the way he describes all of that. And, his journey of, I went to a lake and I understood the lake and all of that.might be a little bit offputing for anybody coming from the engineering background, but the fact that we have recent studies and they seem reasonably well designed, sounds 

Miko Pawlikowski: Pretty unique in that respect. So I'm very happy that you brought this up and we'll link the studies in the description. I think I also remember a TED talk he gave where they basically put him in like a transparent box and they filled it with ice. And they basically said, normal person would probably just die now.

Miko Pawlikowski: But this guy somehow manages to thermoregulate. I guess this is more of a stunt, but it's also interesting one, [00:12:00] right? have you watched this one? I'm sure you have. 

Ravi Modha: Yeah, I know I have. And that was actually done in New York Times Square of all places. and it's an interesting comment you make with how maybe he can come across. and obviously which types of audiences he resonates with. I think if you just take a step back to his origins, he is basically an extreme athlete.

Ravi Modha: And that's how he got famous back in Holland. And he got his nickname. The Iceman, because he broke a number of records relating to cold exposure. So one that you just mentioned was at the time the world's longest ice bath or prolonged cold exposure. It was almost two hours to a point where he essentially used the mindset to thermoregulate the body. What else he did was also he climbed, Mount Kilimanjaro just in his shorts in one of the quickest times ever set. He also took a test group up with him, eight or nine of which had underlying autoimmune conditions. And again, they climbed it in one of the quickest times [00:13:00] possible, basically without, acclimatization.

Ravi Modha: And they used the breathing technique that we're going to maybe test a little bit out later to help them re regulate their body. And he's also run the world's coldest half marathon above the optic circle, barefoot. So he's basically been using cold as his hard nature teacher, if you like, and the extensive training. These are obviously things that have made him famous, but I guess the crux of it is that the extensive trainings have helped him learn how to control the breathing, control the heart rate, control blood circulation, which helps him withstand these types of temperatures. So I think having gone through that as an individual, And he's been really one of the key catalysts to bringing cold exposure and breath into the mainstream now, again, science-backed. There's obviously a deeper spiritual element to a lot of this as well from a soul perspective because I think one of his most famous quotes is, I'm not [00:14:00] afraid of death. I'm actually afraid not to live fully. And so I can understand where maybe you say a little something's a bit more woowoo, it's a bit more spiritual, but I'd also argue,and I have this mantra every time that I go in an ice bath is that my ego and what I think I can do have to die because that cold is going to teach me something. It's usually a mirror of what is going on inside, and that's something that you can then tap into and use into your mindset on a daily basis. So I totally agree with you. And also, when I first met him, I trained with him in Poland at the Wim Hof Academy out there in Mount Sniezka near the Czech border.

Ravi Modha: and I first thought, you know what, he's a big energetic Viking type man, full of masculine energy, but the real depth within him is actually being love centered, self compassionate, and as I said, not being ego led, which is what the cold can really teach you. 

Miko Pawlikowski: Yeah. So I think at this [00:15:00] stage, I'm fairly convinced that, At the very minimum, it works for him. all this records are pretty impressive, by the way, don't try it at home. This is not medical advice for our US-based customers. But the big question that becomes, is it something specific about this particular individual that makes him, more immune to that, gives him better,handle of his own body than an average person, or is it really something that everybody can learn? 

Ravi Modha: if I talk about my own experience, and my own journey, I'm just, Quote, unquote, ordinary guy,born and raised in London who found the Wim Hof method when he was 30 years old, five years ago, and I can talk to the profound shifts that I found if I just start off with what I did, I started off with cold showers and the breathing technique, and I had the same thinking, which was: wim Hof is this extreme athlete. He's probably got some crazy physiological advances and changes, and this is something that I can't do. What I quickly [00:16:00] found was that the body's ability and the mind's ability to adapt, to be creative, to really react to the stress that is put on it. It's super capable and it's just about giving it the right environment to be able to do that. I've then taken a lot of friends and family through this journey of controlled breathwork, of consistent cold exposure and also people who come to my retreats and workshops and my one on one coaching that I also do. And what I've seen more broadly, and the uptake is obviously at different levels, depending on where you're at, but I think the profound changes that can happen, particularly with one's biochemistry is there to be seen.

Ravi Modha: And don't get me wrong, I'm not doing 2 hour ice baths. I'm not promoting that by any means. I'm usually doing 2 to 5 minutes in an ice bath, maybe a couple of minute cold shower. I'm also grabbing the sauna and the heat, exercising, diet, all these things are important. But what I would say is, the [00:17:00] applicability really comes more down to stress management, i.e. how do you deal with daily life stress better, that everybody who's listening to this podcast is being hit with, either through work life, through friends, through family, through an annoying boss, or maybe a project they're not into. You're being met with all this type of stress. And it's how you adapted your nervous system to be able to flip flop so that you can experience life in the best possible way. The other piece is most of us, and I'm generalizing here, but I think 70 to 80 percent of us just simply don't breathe the right way. And we'll get into that a little bit later, but breathing. Is the fundamental physiological Maslow's hierarchy of needs type initial block that we all need that can lead to growth and transformation, extended capacity, more stress management.

Ravi Modha: And unfortunately we've never really been taught about it. So being able to retrain the body and how to breathe right for me personally, complete game changer. There's [00:18:00] nothing that I now feel isn't within my realm or my comfort zone when it comes to stress and what I can deal with. And it's helped me profoundly with my confidence, where I want to take my life, how I interact with people, how comfortable I am in my own skin, and really being able to promote that comfort zone, pushing behavior.

Ravi Modha: So I'd say is, yeah, I think looking at extreme athletes, And obviously celebrities that do this and spend a lot of money on it. The real crux of it is though, how you approach it.I approached it from a pain point of mine, which was heartbreak at the time and not really knowing myself. And I needed something to capitalize that within me.

Ravi Modha: For a lot of my clients and people I work with, they're either seeking massive growth and change. They may be seeking certain goals. They maybe want to break out of repeating patterns. They maybe want to build resilience. Whatever it is. The breath and cold are a really great natural way to be able to tap into your innate power to do that.

Ravi Modha: So I'm going to [00:19:00] question you and

Miko Pawlikowski: go a little bit deeper on all the three pillars that you described, the cold and hot exposure, the breathing and the mindset. And I'm thinking probably the best place to start will be, breathing. You just described that as a massive breakthrough, a game changer for you. Do you think I can ask you to show, not tell, and maybe guide us through a demo of how to do that? 

Miko Pawlikowski: I'd absolutely love to. Yeah, I think that's a great idea and something that the audience can do with us, live.and yeah, I'm a big fan of feeling is understanding. maybe I can explain what the specific Wim Hof method breathing is that we can do around of it. need like a safe space or can they do that on the run as well?

Ravi Modha: Yeah, disclaimer wise, I would say, for folks who are listening, I would try and be sat down or lying down if possible. if you're driving, I certainly would not be promoting doing this while driving or operating any heavy [00:20:00] machinery.and I would just caution as well, if you've had any recent cardiovascular issues, or epileptic or pregnant. I would also avoid this, what we're going to try right now, but if you can be in a comfortable position, assuming you are, you want to be sat upright, just comfortable having the shoulders and the hands relaxed. And when we start, we can also close over the eyes, but I'll explain to you what the 3 base blocks are of the breathing exercise and then we can jump right into it.

Ravi Modha: So there are 3 phases. 1. Which is what we call controlled hyperventilation. And what we're going to do here, we're going to simply be breathing in through our nose and exhaling through our mouth. And a really nice pointer for this is if you want to put one hand on the chest, one hand on the belly, and what we're going to really try and promote is on our inhale.

Ravi Modha: So in through the nose, can we start to move [00:21:00] our bottom hand more? I get a deeper diaphragmatic belly breath into the body. versus the top hand moving more. So if we breathe in and we can try a couple together, breathing in through the nose, can we push out the bottom hand so that the belly expands almost towards the front and then exhaling through the mouth, gently relaxing the body. That may feel a touch unnatural.

Ravi Modha: Most people tend to breathe what we call shallow. So where the top hand is moving more, we'll just try and promote that slowly over time to where the bottom hand is moving a little bit more. We're gonna do 30 of those breaths. So we're gonna circular breath. We're gonna go in through the nose and then out through the mouth. When we finish that one breath, we're gonna go in through the nose again and out through the mouth. And I'll count you guys with the length of that time. 

Miko Pawlikowski: that's not what you [00:22:00] expected to be doing during this podcast.

Ravi Modha: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.so once we've done that, as you can appreciate, that's gonna be getting a lot of oxygen in the body. But we're getting rid of a lot of carbon dioxide. On my cue, on our final exhale, so it'll be our last 30th exhale through the mouth, we will hold the breath. So we'll stop the breathing.

Ravi Modha: Okay. And just sit and relax without taking a further breath. Your body will be full of oxygen. This is where a bit of trust element comes into the body, knowing exactly what to do. We're going to then hold our breath for a certain period of time together. And then on my count, we're going to take one final inhale in through the nose.

Ravi Modha: We're going to hold that breath at the top just for a few seconds, and then we're going to release through the mouth. And that'll be one round of the Wim Hof Method breathing exercise. Some expectations you can expect. [00:23:00] Maybe a little bit of lightheadedness, maybe a bit of tingling in the hands and feet, maybe a slight change in body temperature. All of these physiological changes are super safe, super temporary, it is just that we're getting a lot more oxygen in the body than we're used to.if you guys are ready, we can just take that upright position in our seats or if you're lying down, just relaxing. I'm going to ask you to close over the eyes, just gently. If you want to bring your gaze as your eyes are closed in between your eyebrows, that's perfectly fine as well. And again, just put that one hand on the chest, one hand on the belly, and in a few seconds, we're just going to invite a nice deep breath in. I'll count you down in three, two, one, inhaling in through the nose, letting it go through the mouth, in through the nose, [00:24:00] out through the mouth. Beautiful. Keep that going. Inhaling in through the nose. When you reach the top, letting it go, just finding that circular rhythm in again, letting it go.

Ravi Modha: Beautiful. Find that flow in. Use me as a guide. Let it go. A little bit of pace for this in letting it go. The next one can we get a little bit deeper in through the nose, out through the mouth. Beautiful. Fully in. When you reach the top, letting it go, We've reached the bottom breath again. In, start that cycle.

Ravi Modha: There we go. Nice. Let it go. Doing really well guys. Fully in. Let it go. Few more like [00:25:00] this. In through the nose as much as we can. Let it go gently, in, almost there, letting it go. Just focusing on the breath with me, in and out, starting to oxidize the body fully, in, letting it go. Trying to promote that deep, breathy breath on the inhales. Letting it go. Ten more like this. Fully in. Give it your best. Let it go. Fully in. Let it go. Find that rhythm. Fully in. Letting it go. Last five. In through the nose. Much as we can. Let it go. [00:26:00] Last four. In. Let it go. Last three. Let's go as deep as we can. Fully in. Letting it go. Let's go a little bit longer on these last two.

Ravi Modha: Fully in. As much as you can. Let it go. Final breath. Let's go in and on this next exhale, let it go. Let it go. Let it go. And hold the breath. Stop the breathing. Close the mouth. Relax the shoulders. Be, and stay of peace, calm. Focus in on the heart rate. Gently lower it. Again, this is the very first pillar, trusting the process. [00:27:00] Trusting your body, trusting that the breath has got you doing really well, just a few more seconds. You've got this and in 5, 4, 3, 2, let's take a nice inhale in through the nose, really fill it up to the top and hold. Now, if you want, you can squeeze gently the pelvis, squeeze the lung muscles, squeeze the stomach muscles, just creates a bit of pressure to the head.

Ravi Modha: It's all good. And in three, two, one, let it go through the mouth. let it go, and just sit and enjoy this moment for a second. If there are any physical sensations, just noting them. If there aren't, no worries. [00:28:00] Maybe just taking stock of the presence right now, it's you and your bodies. To come back, start maybe gently moving the fingers, rubbing the hand, if it makes sense. Just bring in a little bit of movement back into the body and then when you're ready, opening up the eyes, slowly blinking it through, coming back, feeling refreshed, recharged, refocused for the rest of the podcast. Welcome back, Miko. 

Miko Pawlikowski: that is a weird feeling. I think, like you

Ravi Modha: did you experience?

Miko Pawlikowski: the diaphragm for breathing is not something I do very much because that felt, weird. And then the next thing that was weird was that when I exhaled at the end, it was a while before I felt like I needed to take a breath [00:29:00] in. I didn't expect that to happen.

Miko Pawlikowski: And yeah, now I feel relaxed. I feel zen.

Ravi Modha: Love it. Love it. Yeah. And that's a great cocktail to take into your day. we just did one round there. I usually repeat that three to four times again, maybe in the link we can leave, a 10 to 12 minute pre recorded voice session that folks can take away if they'd like to practice this on their own.the 10 minutes doing that and then being in the Zen state, that's the stress management change that I talked about. it almost created a bubble around me where I was just feeling less anxious, more at ease, a little bit more calm. And I really liked the point you made around the ease of the breath hold, because typically when we hold our breath or are asked to, we breathe in we hold. The key to be able to hold your breath, which by the way, we held our breath there for [00:30:00] 58 seconds, is expelling more carbon dioxide versus getting in oxygen the brainstem, the deepest part of the brain. It's only triggered to breathe.when we breathe and take a breath in, because carbon dioxide levels are getting too high in the body. And so we need more oxygen to be able to balance them out. So the more carbon dioxide that you actually expel with every exhale, the lower that level is. So the longer it takes for those carbon dioxide levels to rise and for your brain stem to be triggered to say, Hey, to keep me alive, let's breathe. Which is why you feel the ease of that breath hold.

Miko Pawlikowski: So your body doesn't actually know how much oxygen it has. It just goes by the level of CO2 in your body, basically.

Ravi Modha: Correct. Carbon dioxide is acidic. Having too much in it will poison you, essentially. And that's the regulator. [00:31:00] Versus, yes, you're right, the amount of oxygen that you get into the body, which is And usually cap that finite supply. 

Miko Pawlikowski: would you start with this every day? Is that something that you need to chain with the cold exposure or are these elements kind of disjoint and you can place them within your day as you please? How does that work? 

Ravi Modha: these things can be mutually exclusive, or can come together, be separate, use them at any points of the day. What I found that works best is the combo, as you can appreciate, because these two natural elements go hand in hand. But what I do typically, and what I've done for the last five years, is that part of my morning routine, five to 10 minutes of it will be breath work.

Ravi Modha: So it'll be essentially the type of breathing we just did now. And depending on how much time I have, how much energy I have, what I'm feeling every day is slightly different. But on average, five to 10, maybe 10 to 15 minutes, it's on the breather. And that's why I [00:32:00] start my day with, because to your point and what you've experienced right now, that's what I want to take forward is also a big re regulator for the hormonal system, bringing cortisol level down your stress hormone quite quickly,which is super important for the rest of your day. And then typically after the breathing, because I'm in this more Zen state, as you nicely put it, I will then go in cold exposed. And that might be an ice bath, that might be a cold shower, that might be the sauna and the cold as well. Separately, I use this breathwork, maybe one or two rounds of it, and maybe other types of breathwork, which we can talk about slightly later in parts of my daily life. So before I'm getting on stage, before I have to present to an investment committee, Before I have to have a challenge, challenging conversation, I may do one round of this breathing to just help me reregulate where I'm at that moment and bring my nervous system into a more balanced state where I need it.

Ravi Modha: So really beautiful way that you can capture at any point [00:33:00] of time. The breath that we just did with one round took about three or four minutes. and you can obviously do a more condensed version of work that helps. I don't have as much time, so really nice hacks for your day. I typically start my day with cold. If you are doing cold exposure later in the day, it can be very beneficial actually if you struggle from, poor sleep or you can't get to sleep because of overactive mind. Typically what it is hormonal imbalance and the cold again can re regulate your hormonal system that allows your melatonin, the sleep hormone to rise in the appropriate way to help you get to sleep as well.

Ravi Modha: I could definitely see myself picking this up and doing the breath work

Miko Pawlikowski: it seems reasonably safe. It's a pleasant experience. And, I could definitely see myself also using this in a kind of like acute situation when I need to lower my stress levels immediately. Then I guess we introduce the cold [00:34:00] exposure. I've done the cold showers for a while, mainly as a thing to wake me up in the morning and that saying, eat that frog, doing something unpleasant helps me basically procrastinate less through the day and actually start with the things that I really don't want to do, and then enjoy the rest of the day afterwards.

Miko Pawlikowski: I've never gone any further than that. And that brings us to the third pillar of what you were describing. Tell us about that. 

Ravi Modha: Yeah. So the third pillar, the mindset application, and. you touched upon a couple of things there in terms of eating the frog, like doing the hardest thing first, the key benefits of both the cold and the breath because they are physically demanding for me, come down to willpower and have you willpower is something that gets replenished every day that you have a finite amount of. [00:35:00] And the idea of using your willpower on the things that are going to yield you most benefit upfront is worth doing. Versus maybe expending on the tasks that aren't, and a cold shower or an ice bath, to your point, is 100 percent going to yield you more extreme benefit than, say, waking up and scrolling or washing the dishes from last night. Not to say that's not important, but using the willpower, that muscle from your brain in the right way, so that gives you that benefit throughout your day. The other piece is resilience and having the ability, as you say, to go in that cold shower first thing in the morning and turn it cold and actually do it.

Ravi Modha: Now I've been doing this for five years straight, every single day. Don't get me wrong. it doesn't get easier in the sense that your mind still says to you, Hey, what the hell are you doing, or I don't want to do this, but building that resilience so that time [00:36:00] between that thought and the moment that you get in becomes less and less and less translates fully into daily life. When you're then met with demanding situations, high pressure jobs, work life imbalance, maybe a conversation that really triggered you. It builds that resilience for you to say, look, what can I start to control in my life? What can I start to control within me that will allow me to absorb the situation the best way? Perseverance and habit creation. it usually takes anywhere between 60 to 90 days to really create a strong habit. And what I find can be troublesome with doing the breath and the cold is that you're trying to build this now into your say morning routine. And it's something that's quite different.

Ravi Modha: So how do you stack it in there in a way that it can really benefit you and be easy. And so the breathing, what I started to do was that I plugged it in right before I was going to have my morning beverage or coffee. [00:37:00] And right after I hydrated with my water, and so I knew that once I put the kettle on and then it was boiling or it was starting to boil was a time where I could go and spend a few minutes doing my breath work. With the cold, it's a little bit harder because that is something very physically demanding. And you have to usually go to a place to do that. But again, I think that positivity it creates and the can do thinking.

Ravi Modha: Of knowing that, you know what, this is the hardest thing I'm going to do my whole day and everything else on that point becomes easier, can really start to create that basis of repetition and use of willpower in the right way. Last point as well, which has been huge for me, and I think for a lot of people who can really relate to this is that, we all tend to overthink. We don't spend enough time in the present moment, and we're either creating made up stories of the future that hasn't happened. Or we're reminiscing on the past and we're letting that affect us today. [00:38:00] And I think that applies to basically everyone in the world. But the thing is, and you maybe just experienced this now when we did the breathing for a few minutes, or the only way really to get through a cold shower or an ice bath is by not overthinking it.

Ravi Modha: It's by being present with your body, present with your state, present with your breath, present with your intention. And that can really start to train the mind to become more and more present and not overthink in other situations in daily life. And that's been a game changer for my productivity, for my efficiency, also figuring out which mode I'm in terms of.

Ravi Modha: My present future and past state and then trying to bring me back into an optimal mode of that as well.I think the benefits are huge in terms of mindful practicing of this and really approaching the cold in particular in a mindful way. The last point I'll make on this is that you see. A lot of social media, people doing ice baths, jumping into cold lakes, , breaking ice to get in.

Ravi Modha: I'd focus [00:39:00] on the folks who are doing it with intent, who are doing it with presence, who are doing it in a more calm, mature state. Versus the folks that just jump in and try to figure it out, because your body will ultimately figure it out. No questions asked. The body is the best tech that's ever created.

Ravi Modha: I hope that doesn't annoy anyone on the call, but I believe that the body is the best tech ever created and it'll figure out what to do. However, the mind can really start to control the major benefits, or not, that you can have in these situations.

Ravi Modha: So coming into it with willpower, positive thinking, lack of overthinking, Intent is the way that I really like to promote using these tools. 

Miko Pawlikowski: A quick follow up question, ice baths versus showers. Can you get the same benefits with just cold water, which honestly, isn't that cold in the summer anyway, or is ice bath [00:40:00] next level because it's so much colder. 

Ravi Modha: More broadly, if you're going to do any type of cold exposure, You ideally want the water temperature to be 15 degrees or lower, 15 degrees, talking from a UK perspective that will induce the changes in the biochemistry and the physiology from a stress perspective in your immune nervous system and hormonal systems. Anything above that, you may as well go and enjoy a really nice hot shower. It isn't going to do anything for your physiology and your biochemistry. 15 degrees get to your point. in the taps right now, we're filming this in August. It's not going to be anywhere near that, but as you get into October and November, all the way through to March, the taps will be below that for a cold shower. The next level is an ice bath because you can appreciate the density of that water in an ice bath is more than what's going to hit you in a cold shower. And so those temperatures do have a longer lasting [00:41:00] effect on dopamine release. So what happens when you enter 15 degree water or below, is that one of the chemical responses from your body is a 250 percent increase in dopamine levels.

Ravi Modha: That's the feel good hormone, which is why you come away feeling refreshed, energized, charged. That dopamine release, importantly, It's consistent. So there aren't really major drop offs and fluctuations in cold exposure induced dopamine release because it is so pure and it's coming from the deepest glands that are basically ready to keep you alive in these stressful situations.

Ravi Modha: And so your dopamine release can be very consistent throughout the day. And then drop off. That's very different to the dopamine release from, particular drugs, also caffeine induced with adrenaline levels as well that can fluctuate and we tend to get a drop off once we've had that caffeine and we need another one. So it's extremely great benefit for using the cold, the ice bath, depending on the temperature and the lower you [00:42:00] get. We'll start to prolong that curve of dopamine more and more throughout your day. But I'd say anywhere between 6 to 12, 6 to 14 degrees. You're going to be in a great spot in terms of really realizing all the benefits of this. The other piece is how long do you expose for? I mentioned it up front. I usually do two to five minutes a day, two minutes. It's a very bare minimum that I would always recommend doing because 2 minutes allows your body to adjust. It allows your blood flow and circulation to do its thing. It allows your hormones to change. It allows your breathing patterns to hopefully change for you to basically become comfortable in the cold and that discomfort or I should say that comfort in the discomfort. It's a journey that we all want because that can really play out when in life for us to two minutes at the bare minimum and really where you have zero side effects and side effects that have happened for people [00:43:00] really prolonging or extreme length of time, hypothermia and off the drop.

Ravi Modha: And we're doing 2 to 3 minutes. Those are very much minimalized in terms of the risks. The longer you go after that, it becomes even more of a mindset challenge. But rest assured, your body is going to know exactly what to do to keep you alive. 

Miko Pawlikowski: What advice would you give to people who want to try it out? Should they just start with a cold shower? Should they go to one of those gyms that have, ice baths? It's still summer, in the UK. So the cold water is not that plentiful. what would you do?

Ravi Modha: So I think this is one of my favorites because people may say, Hey, I'm just going to wait till the water gets cold in October, November of the new year, right? And we tend to set a lot of goals that way. We tend to think in yearly chunks and. that kind of stuff, whereas I'm a big fan of just starting now.

Ravi Modha: So despite the water probably not being cold enough, the way I would start, and let's assume you guys have a nice hot shower in the [00:44:00] morning and you really enjoy that. Continue doing that. And what I would build in is right at the end of that shower on day one, you turn it completely cold to the most extreme it can get. And you try and withstand that change in temperature for 10 seconds. That's it. Just counting in your mind from zero to 10. There may be an initial shock because the water temperature will change. It might not be that extreme right now, but you'll certainly feel a little bit of a change and just see how you go. When you come back the next day, do the exact same thing, enjoy the hot shower, turn it rapid cold right at the end before you're going to finish, and just add another five seconds, so you maybe get up to 15. The next day, maybe it becomes 20, 25, 30. By the end of the month, you may be at a couple of minutes quite easily, standing in that change temperature at the end.

Ravi Modha: I would start there as a basis because it allows your body to adjust [00:45:00] itself to the fluctuations, then as we get into the winter, when it's going to be a bit more of a difference from when you are turning it cold to that heat again, start with the same practice. you may start with 5 seconds and 10 and 15 and build it up at the end of the month.

Ravi Modha: You're at 2-3 minutes. And the important thing through this is that you're going to want to control the breathing. The breathing, the stress response will be shallow breathing, maybe hyperventilation a little bit when you feel that change when we've ever been squirted with cold water, or we feel that change that tends to happen.

Ravi Modha: It's a bit of a shock, but if we can start to promote the deep belly breathing, which is slower, at consistent pace, what that is doing that signaling to our nervous system. Yes, I want to be in fight or flight state because I've got this new stressor of cold on me. But get me as quickly as you can. Into the rest and digest, the easy state.

Ravi Modha: blood flow is flowing, where oxygen is getting into the body to allow us to adjust. [00:46:00] And you guys will very much find that moment when you get comfortable in that cold. And that is the point where you flip thought from the fight and flight mode to the rest and digest state. So I'd recommend building up like that.

Ravi Modha: Now I did that for a couple of years. Now I'm at a point where I just have straight cold showers and that is a different ball game in itself. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy my hot showers. I have them at night. But I will start with a cold. But my focus is always on two things intention, what I want from it, and then controlling the breathing. 

Miko Pawlikowski: Tell me more how you started and how you went from, okay, this is cool. This is working for me, to I'm going to coach this to other people. I'm going to go to, where is it? Somewhere in Poland to get certified to be a Wim Hof method instructor. Tell me about that bit. 

Ravi Modha: I appreciate you asking. So I mentioned it very briefly, but, about five years back, I was hit with major heartbreak. I'd [00:47:00] been going out with my soulmate, a person who completely changed my life and basically wanted to make me a better human being, which I was feeling very blessed about. I'd moved to New York. I was deep in my investment banking career at the time. And I always knew that, it probably wasn't quite me at my core and what my core values were, didn't always resonate with them, but it was a good job. It paid well. I had a good lifestyle.I had a bit of a tick, tick in terms of things that I owned, what I traveled, the cars I had, et cetera. My partner, who had, I'd say a more spiritual upbringing, would always say to me, Hey, how do you want to actually experience life? How do you want to grow? How do you want to benefit? How do you want to contribute? How do you want to give back? Because you are bigger than your job. And for many years it was in one ear and out the other, because I felt that my job was my status. I felt that if I had a good day at work, that meant I had a good day in life, [00:48:00] and I'd basically become my job. And I think maybe a few people can relate to that in terms of, how much pressure we put on the outcomes of our job, maybe our societal rank, what we define as success, coming externally rather than internally. So it got to a point where basically my own personal growth had stagnated. And we separated and it was my partner's decision and choices. She said to me, Hey, I think you need to go away and work on yourself and I need to do the same thing. Extremely heartbroken as you can imagine. And I really needed something at that time to dig deeper. And I started yoga, I started meditation and I felt they just weren't for me. I enjoyed the movement. I enjoyed the class, the aesthetic, but it wasn't bringing up this, change or something that I was needing. And then by chance, a friend's mum directed me towards the Wim Hof Method because it helped [00:49:00] her deal with grief.

Ravi Modha: And I guess I was going through a form of grief at the time without knowing it. And I did the breath that we did today. I remember it in the depths of winter in February in my flat in West London. And after the second round, I cried at a massive emotional release and I hadn't cried and I'm generalizing as a guy, I hadn't cried for about 12 years prior to that when my granddad has passed obviously this was bringing up a lot of emotion in me that I've been punching down towards the bottom of my gut.

Ravi Modha: I think a lot of people can relate to that as well. We tend to not talk about our feelings, tend to hide them, we tend to think, they're sleeping under the carpet. The breath work is a really natural way to start unlocking that. I went through that day and I had the most incredible changing experiences of stress management. I felt like I had this. I can make the significant changes I want in my life. And then I went back the next day and did a cold shower. And the cold shower gave me incredible [00:50:00] energy throughout the day, a new life, a new zeal. That gave me this real zing of, you know what, I need to now start digging deeper in myself and finding out who I really am. And so that projected me on a two year Deep dive personal and professional self development growth journey where I started working with a coach. I started a ton of new mindfulness practices. I made new friends. I really got out of my comfort zone because the cold and the breath was teaching me that by the end of the 2 years, I'll never forget it.

Ravi Modha: It was New Year's Eve 2021 or 22. I said to myself, tomorrow's New Year's Day. I've got news resolution. I wanted to become a coach in the Wim Hof Method because it has literally changed my life. I got back with my partner and we actually got married literally eight weeks ago.

Miko Pawlikowski: Congratulations.

Ravi Modha: year journey with her.

Ravi Modha: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And so I thought if that can happen to me, just to ordinary [00:51:00] guy who happened to come across this, I needed to be able to teach this and spread the word. And so New Year's Day, I signed up to the training, which involved basically two years of, biology, biochemistry, body system training, and then actually going out and experiencing deep cold exposure and breath work with Wim and all the trainers in Poland for a few weeks at a time, and yet really got me on to,the more coaching side of things.and now I've supplemented that with, my Mindvalley life coaching as well, because I feel that the mindset application of all of this is really where the magic is. The breathwork gives you it, the cold gives you it in spades, but it's then how you're using that mindset to basically neuro linguistically recondition your life. 

Miko Pawlikowski: Wow. That is a beautiful story. And I love the stories that have a happy ending too. Before I let you go. [00:52:00] Because I don't think we're going to get a better note to end on tell people how to find you for anybody who might be local in the UK,how to find your, coaching and your classes. 

Ravi Modha: thank you very much for asking. and I feel like, there's stories,I was always shy about sharing those things, but I feel that the realization I have is that everybody goes through these things.in different ways, shapes or forms. So I appreciate you asking me that.

Ravi Modha: Yeah. In terms of where you can find me. So I'm based in London. the best place would be LinkedIn. You can search my name, Ravi Modha, to your point where you, when we introduced me up front, my calling with the coaching side is really around helping corporate professionals, folks who are in various industries, really activate true potential, improve stress management, really embrace and enhance personal and professional development. and so I run one on one coaching. usually in three or six month programs where I obviously integrate a lot of breath and cold into the mindset [00:53:00] training, into the growth mindset piece, also run workshops in London, which are usually two to five hours and something that you'd experienced of course, a few months back. And then I also run retreats, which are a bit more of a deeper dive and a more of a community feel, over weekends as well. And they tend to be spread out across the UK. So yeah, LinkedIn would be the best place where I put out a lot of content on breath and cold and mindset. How does it comply to our daily lives in corporate, and the changes we want to make. And then, yeah, of course, seeing people in person is really where the magic happens. 

Miko Pawlikowski: Thank you very much for sharing that. And now I'm going to be giving more of a try. I hope that a lot of other people will too. Thank you. 

Ravi Modha: Thank you so much.