Selecting the Right Business Parter

I recently sat down with Joshua Frank to talk about Selecting the Right Business Partner. For those who don't know, Josh and I have known each other for over 20 years. We became business partners in April of 2014. This is an unfiltered peek behind the curtain that will provide you with insights as to why we are so successful working together. Working as a team has been a force multiplier that neither one of us expected.

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Read Transcript Here:

Mike: [00:00:00] Welcome to another edition of Game Changers for Government Contractors everybody. Today I've got my partner, Josh Frank here with me. We are going to be talking about how we work well together, what to look for in a partner, that sort of thing. So before we kick things off, Josh, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about you and kick us off with that.

Josh: Sounds good. Thanks Mike. And I assume you're talking about business partners, right?

 Mike: That is correct.

Josh: I just felt like in today's day and age, I had to clarify that.

Mike: We're not that kind of partners.

Josh: I think, unless you are a brand new first time listener, most know that I'm your business partner here at RSM Federal. I'm really excited about today's session. We've had so many of our clients, so many of our members over at FA, and so many of our connections ask us, how in the hell do you two work so well together? So when you came to me with the recommendation to do this podcast today, I was pretty excited because I get to air some of the dirty laundry. I get [00:01:00] to pat you on the back, here and there.

This is really important because we have a lot of clients that have said, I don't like my business partner. Or, I've got three or four, and one of them's not picking up their slack, whether it's financial or it's trust. I think, for those listeners that are either looking for a business partner or they have a business partner and they're trying to figure out, should I really still be their partner? This should be a really awesome episode.

Mike: Yeah. And I couldn't think of a better way to celebrate 300 episodes of the podcast than doing something like this on how we work well together.

So this is episode 300 of how Josh and I have managed to go 300 episodes. And eight years.

Josh: Well, it's how I've been able to put up with you. Yeah. For 300 episodes, nine years. But no, I love it.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

It's a little bit of virtual hugs, maybe some tears along the way. We'll see what happens. So I thought what we would do is we [00:02:00] separately made a list of why we work well together. And I figured we would just kick things off by sharing the list blindly, and seeing what's on each other's lists.

So why don't you go with the first one?

Josh: Okay. and just for our listeners, we really did this blind. We purposely told each other, Mike, you make a list of why you like working with Josh and, I'll do the same for you. So this really is blind.

The first one, it is the most important for me, but it's not necessarily why we're successful. That's fiscal responsibility. I think we have consensus on this: it's not about the money, it's about the money. That's one of the phrases I'm always saying. Nothing else matters, right, if you're not making money. Both partners have to understand fiscal responsibility. And this is for me, it's more than, Oh, I know how to balance a checkbook. I know how to pay expenses and bring the revenue in the paychecks, from our clients, and then how do you put it in QuickBooks?

No, I'm talking [00:03:00] way more than that. It is a philosophy. It's a strategy of fiscal responsibility. I really believe, and this is the way we do it, that one has to have the lead on it in terms of the day to day. The day to day, one of the partners leads. But you have to have unwavering trust, and if you don't have unwavering trust like you and I have. I mean, there is just total trust when you're spending money. We make our joint decisions, but you trust me implicitly, and I trust you implicitly because we both have strong fiscal responsibility.

So that's my first one.

Mike: That's a good one. And it wasn't on my list.

Josh: No,

Mike: #1 on your list is not on my list. It probably falls under some of the ones on my list, but it wasn't

Josh: sure

Mike: it wasn't that of an obvious 1.  I'll take it a step further with that one is, it's not just about the big decisions.

It's about the simple stuff. So when we look at travel, we're not both flying first class. We're not going [00:04:00] insane. Oh, we're going to have $200 dinner every night while we're out of town. We're looking at what's the smart way. When we went to HUBZone, I was like, dude, I'm not flying to that. I could drive for 75 bucks. And, along the way I’m like, Hey, ship the books to me so we don't have to pay FedEx on the back end to receive the books. And ship the booth to me so we don't have to pay FedEx to receive the booth. Just those little dollar things that eat at people where they're like, I just let the company pay for it. And we're like, no, that's out of our pocket.

Narrator: Did you know we have our own government contracting community? It's called Federal Access. Inside Federal Access you have all the tools, tips, strategies, documents, templates, everything you're ever going to need to be a government contractor. You also get brought into our ecosystem. You get into our private LinkedIn group and you get into our live events and all that kind of thing when you become a member of Federal Access. To learn more, go to federal-access.com/gamechangers. Now let's get [00:05:00] back into this episode.

Josh: We always say that a company is doing one of two things. It's either making money or it's spending money. You're doing one of those two things. Those small things you're talking about, you can't just be fiscally responsible. You have to understand business. None of this works in a vacuum. You and I don't, not anymore, we really don't have to talk in detail about those smaller expenses because we both understand what's right for the company. This is our 15 years in business. When companies, they go, you're a small business. And I go, yes, we're still a small business. But we operate as a startup. I want our listeners to think about that for a minute. 15 years in business, millions and millions of dollars, In revenue. And we still operate as a startup and the fiscal responsibility that goes with acting as a startup. It's a mindset that you've got to have. And if only one of the [00:06:00] partners has that mindset, you're in trouble. You are in big trouble.

Mike:  You're in big trouble. We both worked at the same small business right out of the army doing government contracting. I don't know if you ever ran into this experience, but I was running a board meeting for that company one day. It was actually my first board meeting. These guys had rolled in and they were talking about, Bob, what do you like more, the Maserati or the Ferrari? And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. I'm driving these guys around in a minivan from the airport, right? We’re in the board meeting, and this is what stuck with me. These guys are beyond wealthy that I would understand at that point. We’re in the board meeting and they almost in unison, all opened the binders, unclip the papers, and hand me the binder back. And I'm like, what just happened? They had all grown up in Dell. They had all cut their teeth in Dell. And they were like, if we had walked out of the room with that binder, Michael Dell would have killed us. Cause that's a dollar 50 each that we would have all wasted. He could use that binder for the next board meeting.

That lesson stuck in my head about like, [00:07:00] not just spending money to spend it. But to be smart about it. And I've never forgotten that in 20 plus years. So yeah, fiscal responsibility is probably foundational thing that helps us work well together. Because we both believe it so much and trust each other with those little decisions.

Here's one of the ones on my list here. I put this as number one. It's going to sound funny when I say it is: we both act like grownups. It's not just when it comes to money or decisions and things like that. But you know, you and I have talked a lot about politics. You make fun of me. I make fun of you. And there's some things about politics where we are right on the same page.

I will never forget this dinner that I had. It was after Hurricane Katrina. I'm from Louisiana and I'm talking with this couple at this dinner about how I think some things are ridiculous about how people won't get out. My dad is one of those guys. “I'm not getting out. I don't care if the cops come. Over my dead body, you'll have to drag me out of the house.” And I'm like, well, you get what you deserve, right? I was like, if you get stuck, you get stuck. Cause you're a [00:08:00] grownup. You made that decision. And these people were like, you've got to stop talking about this or we can't be friends. That is not a grown up statement.

You and I have so many differences about little things but yet we act like grownups about it. And we're like, dude, I don't care who you voted for. We'll make fun of each other. But even when it comes to just getting up for work, we act like grownups about this.

And I see so many times where I'm talking to people and I'm like, you're how old and you're bringing this issue to me? This is not a grownups behavior.  We see that so often in business. I'm like, you're acting childish and that's no way to act in business.

And so I will say on my list, they're not in order, that was the first one on my list.

Josh: That's a good one. And I actually have that on my list. I didn't call it acting like an adult. I just wrote the word respect. At the tail end, you said something. Neither of us will bring a problem to the other without recommended solutions. Almost like the golden rule in kindergarten, treat others, same thing. [00:09:00] I don't bring anything to you unless I have recommended solutions and you're the same.

I think I'm the more business conservative of the two of us. I don't know which one of us is more socially conservative, but I do believe in today's world, we both have these political and social ideologies and we do respect each other's positions.

Yes, we definitely put up with each other. I put up with those baseball hats. I don't even know what you look like without a baseball hat. Yes, I see it. I see it. We give each other trouble, but there's not much more I can say on this other than there is just total respect between the two of us.

 And I would say my last thing on this one is to your point about the respect. Regardless of those differences, when it comes to personal things and stuff like that, when we come together on it. It's like, we're so much on the same page all of that stuff doesn't filter into the decisions.

Mike: It's like, Hey, what's best for the client? What's best for the company? Those kinds of things, those personal beliefs, regardless of where they are, they don't have a place in [00:10:00] our decision making and I really like that.

Josh: And for me to finish up on that, I don't care that you vote for all the wrong people. But seriously, that one dovetails into my second one, which is being direct and open. We're conscious of each other's feelings, but business partners and us, for sure, we do not dance around the issues. I'm not worried about your feelings. If I disagree, Hey, Mike, I think that's boneheaded. I think we should do this. Sometimes you go, all right. And sometimes you'll go, you know what, this time I'm not picking that battle. I'm going to go with Josh on that. Other times you come to me and you go, listen, maybe you don't have all the facts, Josh, but here's what I have seen in the market and here's what I'm seeing today. You'll give me that info. And because we respect each other and because we are so direct and open, I'm not butthurt when you come to me and go, Josh, that's boneheaded, how about we look at it this way? And actually what normally [00:11:00] happens, we normally, I don't know, 95 percent of the time, we go to the middle ground.

We meet each other in the middle. I mean, that's just such a level of respect. I know a lot of our listeners are going, this is all great, but how do I find that person? How do I validate that person? And I think we're going to get to that, right, towards the end?

Mike: Hopefully. I think we'll get there as we go through these things, but I think these are all just the “why’s” initially. That one was on my list. That was number six on my list. I kind of wrote it under honesty. I remember this one time, you know me, I like the story. So I remember this one time it was when we had won one of the first awards we had won. And I drove into St. Louis. Your mom was there for the luncheon. I don't know if you remember that one.

Josh: Yeah, I do.

Mike: It was such an awkward out of body experience for me. The whole thing. First of all, I'm in a suit, and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't myself the whole day. And I remember afterwards you sat down with me. It's probably the first and only time you were like, what's wrong with you? What's your problem? Why are you being this way? And I was [00:12:00] like, I don't know. And so we probably talked for 30 minutes, an hour about it. That was probably the one rub fairly early on where I was like, something just didn't feel right about it. Cause you know, again, I was out of my element. It was this company award, but I don't know, it just felt weird. But you didn't just let me get in my car and drive three hours home. You just sat down and talked with me about it. And, anytime there's ever been an issue, which haven't been many, right? I can't think of anything, just little stuff. We just talk about it. And if anything is suspected, there's a few times where you've been like, Hey, I feel like you're being a little distant or you're a little whatever, and like, Oh yeah, it's something going on at home or, Hey, I don't feel good about this issue.

It's that honesty and openness to just sit down and go, I sense something and I'm not going to let it fester.

Josh: And we do that all the time to each other.

Mike: Yeah, absolutely.

Josh: Our families aren't crazy close. I mean, we don't live next to each other. But I know what's happening in your life and your family. You know what's [00:13:00] happening in mine. I think that is normal. It's part of being business partners. I don't get into the nitty gritty with you. But if I do sense something I'll ask. And there are many times where I go, Mike, I'm down right now.

I'm not feeling it. Just FYI for the next week or two, if I'm sort of rash or if I'm getting angry, just work with me. I’ll set those expectations with you. You're so bloody level, you rarely have to do that with me, but anyway.

Mike: I try, I try really hard. That's a good one. To address question you brought up right before this, if people look at it through the lens of: instead of trying to find the perfect partner that meets all of these, but instead building this over time with people and focusing in these areas, I think it'll help. Because we didn't start off 100 percent in all these areas.

This is a relationship built over time and that's the thing. We came together with similar character and morals, which is one of the ones on my list. We came together with [00:14:00] some similar beliefs and things like that, but we built it over time. It was not: we came together, it was perfect, and we never changed anything. We've grown a lot over the years.

And as you said at the start of the podcast, it's not about the money. It's about the money. It's funny how, as the money grows, we have become more relaxed, more confident in who we are and what we do, the things that we do that work. And, it's allowed a lot of the trust to kind of develop even further in some of those things. It's an over time thing, not something we just flipped on at the beginning.

That was probably one of my next ones there, number five on my list is with similar character and morals. So even though we have different, political, social, whatever beliefs, things like that, when it comes down to how we operate as people, as business people, it's so similar. And in fact, I don't know that there are any differences. You know, you'll call me and say, Mike, something just happened. I needed you to [00:15:00] know about it immediately, because this just happened

Josh: Yesterday. That just happened yesterday. That's right.

Mike: Or even you'll call and say, Hey, there's a situation that I'm in. You know, it's not a big deal, but I feel like it's tricky. And I want to balance. I think I know, but I want to get your two cents and here's my thoughts. And I'm like, yep, that's exactly what I would do. There's so many of those little things like that where we're so similar. Instead of me saying, well, Josh, this is a business and we don't have to worry about A, B or C. We can just be business people. We don't. We're like, no, that's not right. And we're not going to do business that way. And we both agree. So that's one of mine.

Josh: yeah, this just goes to show how, tight we are as business partners. My list, I had integrity and ethics. There is no compromise. It is either ethical or it's not. You sort of brought politics in, at least from like a business perspective. I am constantly reaching out to you: Hey, listen, we have this business partner. We're looking to do this. I don't [00:16:00] think this is on the up and up. Or I don't feel that politically this looks, the optics, the optics of this looks good for us. I think it can injure the brand. It can injure our reputation. I don't simply do those in my head. I always reach out to you. Actually, now that you mentioned it, we probably do that every day. We probably reach out and, what's your two cents, right? There's that level of trust.

When I first started the company, prior company, more than 15 years ago, I had a business partner. Now, you know this story, but I'm going to just briefly tell our audience. I'm not going to use his name. I call him funny man, Mr. Funny man. I've said his name maybe once in 15 years. I didn't do my due diligence. I was a young entrepreneur. I was a business expert and federal acquisition and all the tactic strategies, but I wasn't smart enough at business. And this guy, we went to the first VETS [00:17:00] conference in 2011 in Reno, Nevada for veterans. And we came back and there was a $10,000 bill on one of the credit cards. I said, Hey, funny man. What is up with this? And he goes, Oh, you're just such a…..his exact words, you're so fiscally anal. I thought I'd play a joke on you. Now my alarm bells were going off, but then he started buying technology for the family.

Then all of a sudden I was getting calls from other companies going, Hey, when are you going to start working with us? And I'm like, I have no idea who you are. Well, we signed a contract with you. After 20 of those calls, I realized I was working with a con artist. Only twice in my life have I been taken by a con artist. That guy, he lost his house within six months. He was divorced within six months and he lost access to his daughter, his eight year old daughter. I don't wish that on anyone.

When you're looking for a partner, I'll go ahead and say it now, you [00:18:00] do background checks. Now, some may go, wow, that's a little harsh or hardcore. You do background checks. How else do you know if that individual is fiscally responsible in their personal life? If they're not, what makes you think they'll be fiscally responsible in their business life? The reason why he was doing all that is he was floating his personal debt on top of the company in addition to theft.

So, Mike, I will go public and say, working with you has been a godsend. Working with you has been, not just comforting, but beneficial and rewarding.

That's the word I'm looking for. Working with you has been so rewarding. As we said, you grow into a lot of this stuff over time, like trust, et cetera.

Fiscal responsibility is not something that comes over time. Integrity and ethics is not something that comes over time. Those two: your potential business partner has it or they don't. And if you don't know, you must find out before you sign any paperwork.

Mike: Right. And to kind of bounce off that, one of the things, it's a little bit different with us than a lot of people, [00:19:00] is we had known each other for a decade before we became business partners. We had worked in a company together. You got to see me in some very, very difficult situations. You got to see me tested and how I responded and what happened. It was not necessarily the norm for a lot of people. Some people work together in a coworker type setting and things like that. Some people are friends, but they don't necessarily get both sides of that. We had seen both sides of that. And we had gone our separate ways for a good chunk of time before we got together.

Based on what you just said there about working with me leads me to my next one of the complimentary skills. You're really good about just, you'll catch me off guard all the time with Mike, I really enjoy working with you. Mike, I really enjoy working with you,

Josh: It has to be said. You have to tell your partner that you appreciate them.

Mike: Yeah. And for me, while yours is verbal, mine is just head down doing the work. I'm just going to head down doing the work [00:20:00] and that's kind of how I say, I appreciate you. So like, we're very complimentary though, because I'll hear that and go, yeah, I, really appreciate working with you too. Or, you know, send you a gift every now and then that you don't use or something like that.

Josh: It makes you uncomfortable. I get it, Mike, I get it.

Mike: But I appreciate it because, it does need to be said. I do appreciate that and I think it's a big deal. But it goes to the complimentary skills set of things of, you know, it needs to be said where I'm just doing the work and doing the thing, hoping that expresses it, basically. But it doesn't just stop there with us on the complimentary skills, whether it's technology, whether it's writing. I'll write something, I'll write a page or so, and I'll leave it in a blank word document. You dress it up and put graphics in it and it's 18 pages. Oh, that's probably the level of detail it needed. Things like that, whether it's video or whatever it is, you go to the nth degree on it. It's just this complimentary thing. And so I'll kind of slide to your direction and never get all the way over there. Because again, it's just complimentary the way you [00:21:00] do what you do, the way I do what I do.

I've always heard if you have two people in the company that are a hundred percent the same, one of them is worthless to the company. We have differences, but things are so complimentary that it just works really well together. I think that's one of the reasons why we're successful. You have a set of skills, I have a set of skills. And they collide in kind of like perfect harmony, if you will.

Where a lot of people are like, well, I've got this set of skills and you've got that set of skills, but there's a gap in the middle. And we don't know how to fill the gap. The way you and I look at it is we're going to learn the gap. You're learning part of the gap. I'm learning part of the gap. We’ve never stopped the learning piece. But we’d identify those gaps, especially early on, and we would do research on it and figure it out. You know, whether it was setting up the membership site or moving you from one thing to WordPress or whatever it is. We had those skills to be able to overcome those early stage challenges. And I think that's part of what helped build lot of the trust and things [00:22:00] are around what we do. So those complimentary skills are big to me.

Josh: So, again, it's on my list. I had complimentary capabilities, but diverse set of business skills. Using your, analogy there we're on two sides. We have a gap. That brings me to another one of my quotes of, you're an expert at whatever you decide to be an expert at. And that brings up another one of my quotes, the difference between a job and an occupation is lifelong learning.  You and I, we're very good at it. We're very good. If we don't know something, we will go learn how to do it. That's a part of being a business owner.

But if you and I can't fill that gap, then we will pay the money and we'll outsource it. We're not going to put our heads in the sand and bury them and hope for the best. Because hope is not a strategy. The way I look at the complimentary capabilities, diverse set of business skills, we have the same end state, but our different skill sets get us there faster. That's really important. I totally agree. Imagine for a moment, you're both software developers. You're [00:23:00] both really, really good at your job. There's not a lot of differentiation there. You need to bring a business partner in that is different than you, that has different skills.

We're both geeks. We're both generalists with expertise across a wide range of government regulations and strategies. But we both combine it with strong business acumen.

When I was thinking about getting ready for today's podcast, you know you see the big picture. I use you to help me see the big picture sometimes, right. To see the forest through the trees. Because that's what helps me step back, realign.

When it comes to marketing, branding, social media, messaging, I think we're both really, really strong at it. But I think you're better at succinctly communicating it better than I am.

When it comes to the financial piece, I think we started a little more unequal, but we've become so equal in that, right? As the company has grown.

I think I'm stronger on the regulation side. You'll often come to me on the FAR and EFAR and go, Hey,

Mike: [00:24:00] absolutely

Josh: I think this is what this is. Let me bounce it off. And then I come to you on various tactics and strategies, from a business development, whatever it may be. This is probably, next to fiscal responsibility, the second most important thing you should be looking for when you're looking for a business partner, and that is that complimentary capability, but a diverse skill set.

Mike: Absolutely. And I echo everything you said is kind of spot on for me. One that is kind of entangled in that one is that we learn from each other.

Josh: Absolutely. Yeah.

Mike: We learn a lot from each other. I shared this quote with you the other day and you're like, oh yeah. It's the Bible quote, a prophet is without honor in his hometown. That version of that. I see that a lot in business. In fact, there were multiple people that approach me at the last couple of conferences and said, I work for my brother. I work for my sister. I work for my dad. I work for whoever. I work for my spouse. And I've been saying the [00:25:00] things you're saying, but every time they hear it in your podcast, it resonates.

 I don't feel like we treat each other like that. I feel like we have very high regard. That goes back to your respect earlier for each other and our knowledge. And because of that, we constantly learn something from each other, whether it is about the FAR. Or, I've been hammering you a little bit on stream deck and your lighting and stuff like that. You hammered me on some of my microphone stuff a while back. Or social media or whatever it is on just getting better at what we do, we're constantly learning from each other. Not just the good stuff, but the mistakes. Oh, I bought this and it was junk. Oh, I bought this and I didn't like it. Or this is very difficult and stuff like that. So we learn and we get smarter and faster and better from each other because we respect each other so much and the opinions of each other so much. And so that's one of the ones on the list.

 Josh: I have two left on my list. How many do you have left on yours?

Mike: I have three, but we've talked a [00:26:00] lot around two of them. And so I'm going to mention them when we get to them.

Josh: Okay. So, I'm going to save my favorite one for last,

Mike: Me too, that’s what I’m doing.

 Josh: But a strong work ethic

Mike: that's one of my, that was number five on my list. 

Josh: There are a lot of business professionals out there. Some business professionals are: you know what, I have family life. I'm working nine to five and that's it. I'm only working nine to five. I'm a business owner, but I'm working nine to five. This goes back to, I truly believe you and I continue operating as a startup. Doesn't matter that we've been in business 15 years. But what you don't want is somebody that's, I'm sorry, but you're treating it as a part time gig.

And when you are a business owner, nine to five doesn't cut it. Nine to five doesn't cut it unless you're just providing your venture capital for somebody else's company or something. This is me. We are always working on the company and in the company.

But I will say this, and this is so important. I didn't have this on my list, but I just realized business partners have to remind each other [00:27:00] to take time off. You are always looking at my calendar. Josh, I don't see where you're taking a four day weekend anytime in the next quarter or two. When are you taking time off? Josh, I want to see you scheduling four day weekends taking time off.

Josh, I don't care that you're going to Cancun in December. That's once during 12 months. You're starting to do a little bit of work on Fridays on the lake. I've seen the videos. We just had a meeting last Friday, you're on a boat and we're talking some serious stuff about the future of our company. But you're still working.

And if you're not working, you're thinking. And I trust you. Your work ethic is as powerful and as strong as mine. But I would tell our audience, you need to be looking for that work ethic in a future partner, right?

If all they do is talk about the vacations they take, you have to gauge that. So anyway, that's the second to last one of my list.

Mike: Yeah, I think it's one of the most powerful ones. I'm going to combine that [00:28:00] with trust just in general. Trust was one of the ones of my last three. We trust each other so much. Everything is wrapped in trust, whether it's the financial side, the work ethics side, the honesty. I trust you to not lose your mind. It's the political things that we joke about, cause we'll go to lunch and we'll talk politics, family, whatever. And, we'll poke fun at each other, but we just trust the other person's reactions so much.

And when it comes to that work ethic side of things, I don't tell you, Hey Josh, I'm going to be at the lake every other Friday or whatever it is. And by the way, you've got all the support. You've got all the support emails. Oh, I'm going to be at the lake next Friday. And by the way, anybody that emails me, that's on your plate. Anybody that does it's on your plate.  I don't shove that off on you. I still do it. And you know, whether we are sending emails at two o'clock in the morning or four o'clock in the morning or noon, you know, and I know that the work is going to get done. I'm going to follow through.

Now there's the occasional thing where I'll [00:29:00] forward something to you or your forward something to me and say, did you get this, because I didn't see a response or whatever. Like, Oh, you know what? I missed that. And it's a complete accident, but it's once a year. It's so rare that we miss something or drop the ball that we go out of our way to say, Hey, I missed this. I forgot about it. I dropped the ball because we're always juggling it.

And I don't look at when you clock in to work. I don't look at when you leave. In fact, there's a lot of times you may be working earlier than me.

Josh: That's good. Yeah. That tracking. And then, clocking in. We trust each other to be clocked in 24 seven.

Mike: We're just clocked in.

Josh: We're just clocked in, right.

Mike: And there's plenty of times where you will call me at 4:30 or 2:30. Yeah, I'd be like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Here's 18 rapid fire, whatever. And by the way, I'm fried. I'm done for the day. I'll talk to you in a day or two. Or better yet, we'll go three, four days and there's only an email or two.

Josh: You are taking my thunder. And by the way, I [00:30:00] was wrong. I didn't have two left on my list. I actually missed one. I've been checking these off as we go. And one of them was unwavering trust. We trust each other so much. What I was going to say on the unwavering trust was there are weeks where we go by two, three or four days. Now, two or three days without actually talking to each other. We'll email back and forth. You've got your mission. I've got mine. And our two missions together run the company.

Mike: Yeah, absolutely.

Josh: All right. So do you want to do your last one or do you want me to do my last one first?

Mike: I kind of have another one that just came up when you brought that up. Let me do that one. Out of all those things there, we also share the successes with other. That's something I think is really important. Because not only do we share it financially, but you know, you'll call me from a conference. You do this a lot more than I do when I'm on the road. I usually don't call right. But when you're on the road at a conference, you're very good about, I just had this great keynote and [00:31:00] 15 people came up and I think we got a new client. Or I just had this great meeting with this person. You'll share those little successes that are all just like boosts of energy into the company. You'll share. You're really good about doing that from the road.

And sometimes when we're together or talking like this, we're like, Oh man, do you realize revenue wise, what we did last month, or we have our quarterly finance meeting. Like, do you realize the biggest check we wrote each other? And we're like, what are you going to do with it? You're Mr. Fiscal responsibility. You know, I'm going to put it all into retirement. Mike's like, I'm getting new floors. Although you'll be really glad at this one. With this one, I've maxed out all of the retirement stuff on this check, so you'll be really proud of that one.

Josh: Nice. It's nice. That's awesome.

Mike: But it's just the sharing of the successes and you're happy that I'm on the boat and all those kind of things. We're happy for each other and as a company  we share that success,

Josh: Absolutely. I think the over under on the last one will be 80% that yours is the same as mine.

Mike: We'll see.

Josh: Okay. Our passion.

Mike: It's not the same. [00:32:00]

Josh: That wasn't yours. Not the same?

Mike: I agree, but it's not the same.

Josh: For me and our listeners, as you're looking at future potential partners: Mike, all these other things aside, you and I have a level of passion, a passion to help others, a passion for success, a passion to make money.

For our listeners, those that aren't clients, almost all of our clients that work with Mike and I, and many of our coaches say that one of the reasons that we continue working with you is that passion. And that's what we're known for in the market is our passion for what we do and helping others.

That is the last one. I am disappointed that yours last one is not also passion. All right, so what's yours?

Mike: Okay. So I had to add one to the list when he said that. So I've got two and I think it goes into passion, right? But what ties into passion for a lot of folks that I hear a lot is not only our passion, but our authenticity. Who you see is what you get when it comes to both of us.

Josh: That's [00:33:00] good. Yeah.

Mike: There's no fake anything. I would tie that to the passion. Cause I hear that so much from people. We're just real. And so we're not playing. Forget about real politics like senators and Congress and forget about that. Think company politics. We don't have that. We don't play a political chess game. We're just very authentic and real with each other, with our audience. And I think that has really resonated well with a lot of people. That ties into the passion one.

My last one, I know this will be on your list once you hear it, is we both have a good sense of humor. We both play with each other

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Mike: And we joke. So even when we're dealing with something crazy, I am kind of like Chandler from FRIENDS where I deal with awkward things with humor. Anything’s going on, I deal with it with humor. It's just kind of how I've grown up over the years. I grew up in the sitcom era. But being able to just laugh at ourselves.  I pick on you, you pick on me. I call you Rain Man and I'm Tom Cruise because you're smart and I'm good looking or [00:34:00] whatever it is., I know you're smarter than me, you know, and I'm just going to give into that. Just the ability for us to pick and play and joke around with it and not be so serious. Because there's so many of, I want to say colleagues, where I get on the phone and I'm like, dude, you dressed up in a suit and that's cool. But everything is so hospital-like, feels institutional. That's the word I was looking for. Institutional feeling where it's so fricking serious. And I'm like, there's gotta be some fun in the business and fun between them. And so I think of a lot of people lack that and we have a good balance. We can both be very serious. But we have a sense of humor. Yours is a little bit different than mine, but we both laugh at each other all the time.

Josh: I can't fault any of these final ones that you're putting in here. You know, the humor. Yeah. Yeah, we're always laughing and cracking jokes at each other. I mean, I poke fun at you. But what's important on this is that we also do it with our clients. It is [00:35:00] very normal for me to be on a call with a client that's got eight or nine or even 10 of the employees on the strategy session.

And towards the end, I'll go, let's go around the room. Anybody have any alibis, any final comments for today's session. And when we're done, I'll pick one of the individuals, I know everybody on the call. I'll pick one. Let's say her name's Amber and I'll be like, Amber. Hey, listen up. Our next session I need you to keep it down. You were a little distracting. And she didn't say a word. The entire strategy, right? And everybody starts laughing. That's also a tactic and I'm okay with our clients knowing this. That's also a tactic for retention. Whether your client is another company, it's B2B, it's a government buyer, it's B2G. Finish a meeting on a smile and a laugh. It does wonders, right?

So it's not just you and I, it's also the clients. And I'll finish up on the whole humor thing. Anybody that went to the 8A, National 8A and HUBZone Contractors National Council awards gala [00:36:00] at the World War II Museum in New Orleans, Louisiana. And this was just this year. What? Back in May?

Mike: Yep.  

Josh: And you and I talked about that before and I said, you know what? First of all, getting you into a suit is like pulling teeth. Actually, I think it's more difficult than pulling teeth. Your personal brand is biz casual with a baseball hat. Yes, for all of those wondering, it took me I think five or six years to accept this with Mike. They say you’ve got to accept some obnoxious thing with every one of your friends, right? So that was mine. But what did we talk about and what did you wear at the awards gala that just blew everybody's mind?

Mike: Well, the fact that I didn't wear the hat,

Josh: You didn't wear the hat,

Mike: I didn't wear the hat

Josh: And you wore a,

Mike: I wore a suit so that

Josh: You did not wear a suit

Mike: Or the tux, a tux,

Josh: You wore a tux.

Mike: Yeah, I went all the way out.

Josh: So everybody was like, Oh my God, that's Mike, that's [00:37:00] Mike. He's wearing a tux.

Mike: You're forgetting the Lost in Leesburg, which is probably one of my favorite things I've done over the years is taking photos of Josh lost in the tunnels at the HUBZone Conference. If you haven't followed that, it's lost in the tunnels. And, my post, he kind of reminds me of Despicable Me. Just being able to have fun with it is such a big deal.

Let's wrap up with this. We've talked about all these things. I think what I said earlier about how do you find this person is you find somebody with a couple of these. And you've talked about the foundation, the trust, the fiscal responsibility, the complimentary skills, those may be the foundation. And then you start to build on the others. If you don't know that person, some background checks are possibly a thing. But, you know, I think for us, just being able to find somebody you knew. I knew you, I liked you, I trusted you. I felt like we had a really good chance of being successful. You were already doing things and were successful. It wasn't like a lot [00:38:00] of the people that come to me and go, Bob's working a full time job. I'm working a full time job. And we're going to try to throw this together in the weekend. And by the way, we don't have any cash. We don't have any reserves, but we're going to try to do this.

I think in a lot of those situations, there's a lot of trust. Probably there's a lot of hope, as you said earlier, which is not a strategy. And that can actually rip friends apart when they don't come into it with any of those things. So there was no stability in a lot of those relationships that I hear about that don't work.

And that may be another one to hear. There's so much stability on both sides. You know, your problems, your problems, my problems, my problems.  It was just one of those things where there's stability. And I think I told you early on,  it was probably in year two or three, I’m like Josh. I am not your problem. I don't know if you remember this conversation. We were early on, revenue was growing, but we're like, we're not sure. And I’m like, if you got to cut me loose so that your family can get fed this month, then that's what you do.

Josh: Oh, [00:39:00] I remember that. I remember that. Yeah.

Mike: Cause my problems are not your problems. At the time, I don't know if I was a partner in the company. Even if I was, I was like, I got by on myself without this. And I could get by without it in the future. I wouldn't look at it and be like, well, Josh, man, you know, you wrecked my financial future because we got together and it didn't grow or whatever. But a lot of people would. A lot of people would be like, Hey, we were buddies and you brought me on and it failed and now, I hate you. We were never like that. It was just different.

I don't know if you've got any final tips or thoughts on how does somebody go about finding this person or cultivating this? And then we didn't address, how do you deal with if you wake up and you're like, Oh, I've got the wrong partner.

We should leave that for last.

Josh: Yeah. I agree with what you said. Whoever you do find to be a business partner, the things you don't grow into, the ones that must be there as a foundation are the fiscal responsibility, the integrity, the ethics, including having a strong work ethic and the complimentary capabilities, but [00:40:00] diverse skill set. I have nothing really new to add on that.

If you've got the wrong business partner, this is probably a podcast for another time. You know, it all depends. What's the equity share? It's a lot easier if you're not making a lot of money yet, right? Once the company is becoming more and more successful, having to buy out a partner and it gets expensive. So I don't think we can do justice today on this podcast.

Mike: Let's do another podcast on that one. But my only parting shot on that one would be you got to address it. You can't let something fester. That has been a theme as we've talked about here with honesty and openness and trust and all that, where we never let anything fester. We just don't.

If you're in a situation where you have heard this podcast today and you're like, I don't have that kind of relationship, I reiterate, it was built over time. A lot of time. So there's that. But you've got to be willing to address it.

I was talking with a client [00:41:00] yesterday who had a, I would call it a negative relationship with somebody on his team. And I've said, you got to do a soft reboot. So there's a soft and there's a hard reboot. You haven't done any sort of reboot. You've got to do a soft reboot with this person because you're telling me you haven't communicated expectations. You haven't done this. You haven't done that. And if you left all of that up for just interpretation or I think they're just going to figure it out and read my mind. No, they're not. You got to communicate.

We communicate so much, which has been a theme of today. You've got to communicate that through a soft reboot with that person or else it's just going to get worse. And then if that doesn't fix it, then it's a hard reboot. And that hard reboot may be going separate ways. It just all depends. But I think addressing it's the main thing.

I don't know if you've got any final thoughts for folks, but this is probably one of my favorite podcasts.

Josh: Mine too. And my final thought is not for the audience. My final thought is for you. Thank you again for, all the years. I [00:42:00] mean, we're coming up on a decade and it has been a privilege and an honor to work alongside you. Thank you for listening to everything that I say, doing everything. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Really though, this is a virtual pat on the back, and a hug. I have absolutely loved working with you and look forward to many more years.

Mike: Same here. It's been such a pleasure. I won't say it's been unexpected, but I don't think either one of us knew 10 years ago

Josh: No

Mike: Where we were going.

Josh: No, our success has been such an explosion. But I also know it's because of the two of us together.

Mike: Yep. It's the powerhouse. So, I appreciate that. I echo all those things. Love you to death.

We'll see everybody next episode.

Narrator: I really hope you enjoyed the podcast today. If you did, I would really appreciate it if you would like and subscribe to the podcast and screenshot it and tag me on LinkedIn or whatever social media you use. So thank you again for joining us today and we'll [00:43:00] see you next time.