Brandon Emerick, the organizer of the Permaculture/Sustainable Living Meetup Group, used to not believe in climate change. One high school research assignment and a few hours on Google Scholar later, he was convinced. These days, Brandon is deeply dedicated to educating the world about sustainable living. He and David sit down to discuss everything from energy-efficient appliances and co-housing arrangements to running for local government positions with an environmental agenda. They even touch on connecting with nature, the philosophy of negative utilitarianism, and the social aspects of fighting for a cause.
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Live Well and Protect the Planet
Before we get into this episode, I have something important to share. Check out my new book Decide and Conquer to get to know my story at Meetup. The hardest thing about community leadership is making tough decisions when the stakes are high. They were never higher than when Meetup was owned and sold by WeWork.
In my new book, Decide and Conquer, I’ll walk you through a counterintuitive framework for decision-making and the epic journey of Meetup’s surprising survival. Good leaders deliberate. Great leaders decide. Order my book by visiting DecideandConquerBook.com or anywhere books are sold. You will like it.
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In this episode, we are talking to Brandon Emerick. He created the Meetup group around permaculture and environment sustainability in Connecticut. He’s a leader among college students. I look forward to you reading this episode. Welcome, Brandon.
Thank you. I’m so excited to be here.
I’m so happy to have you. One of the reasons I’m so happy to have you is because some of my favorite guests on this show are Meetup organizers who are doing the real work. Other favorite guests of mine are younger people, Gen Zers, and Millennials. The fact that you are both makes me excited. You founded the Permaculture/Sustainable Living Meetup Group while you were at school. You’re deeply dedicated to educating the world on sustainability. Let’s know your story. I would love to learn more about where you got this passion and when you realized this passion for the environment.
It was the pure logic of the fact that we were destroying the planet and not thinking things through. It’s the fact that we only have until 2050 or so before our farmland or the soil is going to be completely unusable. Our topsoil is going to be degraded. In our oceans, we’re going to be losing the coral reefs. We’re going to have tons of flooding. We’re going to be having hurricanes.
Did you know this at seven years old? When did you find out about this stuff? Was it in high school or elementary school?
Believe it or not, I used to not believe in climate change. I used to be more conservative, but after writing an essay in high school about climate change, I came across science and then decided it was real. I became passionate about it when I was in college.
First of all, props to your high school teacher. Was it your science teacher?
I was taught by my high school teacher. In English class, we had to write an essay about a conspiracy theory or controversial topic. I chose to make it on climate change. I was going to write why it’s not true. After doing my research on Google Scholar, I found out that it is.
People don’t realize that Google Scholar exists. It’s an amazing resource. You could learn about so many academic papers and a tremendous amount of research. For those of you who have never gone to Google Scholar, go there. You investigated that in high school. In college, what happened?
In college, I learned more about it from my professors. They talked about it on campus. They talk about zero waste. I heard a lot about solar. I saw a news article about this company that is planting trees all around the world to sequester carbon. They’re injecting the seeds into the ground. Eventually, you can spawn a forest with it.
A lot of people are exposed to this in high school and college, but you decided that you’re going to make this your life’s passion. Many people know some of the statistics that you shared. They’re terrifying statistics. They’re scary. What was it about you, your background, and your upbringing that turned it from a scary statistic to saying, “I need to do something about this?”
I am passionate about helping others and making sure that we reduce as much suffering as possible during our lifetimes and promote well-being. I believe that solving climate change and other environmental issues is one of the best ways to go about that.
Talk to me about your passion for helping other people and being unselfish. You created your group during the pandemic. Why did you create it then? Were you thinking, “Maybe I should wait until the pandemic ends so we can meet up in person?” What were the dynamics of creating something when people needed it a lot, but it was also a difficult time for others? Tell us a little bit about that.
I decided to make it during the pandemic specifically because I didn’t have any social connections at the time. Before the pandemic started, I attended UConn. I studied Cognitive Science there. I’m very interested in how the mind works. I ended up switching to Western Governors University. I’m studying Business Management there. Back in 2020, after I quit UConn and was doing college at home, I didn’t have any connections. I didn’t have a job. I wasn’t going to college in person, so I decided I would create my connections. I created a Meetup group.
How did you hear about Meetup? Who told you about Meetup?
My mom told me about it. She was recommending that I join a Meetup group because they have biker groups and lots of groups, which could be done outside, but I decided to make my own.
You’re like, “I’m not going to join a group. I’m going to start a group.” That takes some guts.
Be passionate about helping others.
I didn’t find a group that fascinated me. I like learning more about the world and then telling others about what I found, so I created Sustainable Living group.
What did you anticipate when you first created a group? Did you think there would be 1,000 people overnight or a couple? What did you expect to happen? What ended up happening?
To be honest, I don’t recall how many people I expected to come. I was discouraged when I saw that 10 people would sign up, but only 3 or 4 would come.
Those 3 or 4 probably had an amazing experience. It’s not always about the massive volume.
I found out you can increase retention when you message people before the meeting to come, ask if they’re going to attend, and maybe say something that would interest them. You could also ask the group what topics they would like to talk about. You engage people.
Has your mom come to any Meetup events or not?
She’s not interested in it at all.
Is it mostly people in Connecticut? Do you have people around the US and the world? What’s the deal?
There are people around the US. I’ve had people from India, France, and Canada.
That must have been fun when you look at it, and you’re like, “Someone from France and India joined.” That’s exciting. Tell us about 1 or 2 events you’ve had so far. Success doesn’t mean that tons of people joined. Success means it was a great experience for everyone who was there. What did you talk about? What made it successful? I would love to know that too.
I’ll tell you about the biggest meeting, which was also an excellent meeting. It was about psychedelics. That may not sound like it’s an environmental topic, but it is because back when psychedelics were illegal in the 1960s, these hippie environmentalists regularly consumed substances like magic mushrooms and LSD. What happened was they felt at one with the environment around them. These divisions between the self and others vanished.
They felt that animals matter and that protecting the Earth matters. To the average person back then and even now, these are pretty radical concepts. We have this human-centric idea, “We only have to protect people.” We don’t like to protect humans and even people in our society. It’s racism but applied to all of humanity. Psychedelics break this barrier down. They can turn ordinary people into environmentalists, interestingly.
Did you have a speaker? Did you have a discussion group? How did it work?
What we do is watch YouTube videos. That’s what we do over every meeting. After every video, we chat about it. I’ve never had psychedelics in my life. I just read about it.
Moving away from psychedelics, are there any learnings that you’ve had in building your community? Besides messaging people to get them to show up, what other things have you learned that worked? What things work less in terms of the Meetup events you’ve had so far?
As for building my community, I would recommend making your meetings a week or two or more prior to the event because that gets as many people as possible to sign up for the meeting. What I did was I made four or so meetings in advance. I got a large number of people compared to before who signed up for the meeting. There were more than ten for every meeting, I believe.
It’s also reaching out to them individually and suggesting an in-person meeting place. If you want to go hiking, you can talk about anything during a hike. Maybe someone doesn’t want to talk about sustainability, but they would be okay with talking about it during a hike. That would be a great way to build community in person while also increasing interest in the subject matter.
As a college student, clearly, this Meetup community has done some positive things for you, I hope. What has it done for you? Are you learning? Is it more learning or social? What has been the biggest benefit?
The biggest benefit is maintaining social connections with people because I don’t have an in-person job. I’m a clean energy consultant. I do schedule appointments with people to talk about solar and why it would benefit them in their homes. That’s only periodically. That’s when I get an appointment scheduled, but by having this group on Meetup, which meets weekly and regularly, I can maintain some of my friendships and make new connections.
That’s so great. What advice would you give to other college students? It’s different. There are college students at universities and colleges that are going to class in person. There are many like yourself who are not going to classes in person per se and not in an in-person university. What advice would you give to other college students? Would you tell them to join a group or start a group? What would you tell them?
I tell them that there are no downsides to starting a group or creating meetings because all they can gain is new knowledge from whatever they presented and some new friendships. This is not a job. You’re not paid to come regularly to a meeting. You can come whenever you want to and set up whenever. It’s self-paced. There’s no reason why someone wouldn’t want to create a group if they were interested in something.
As a resume builder, it looks incredible on your resume. I hope you have it on your resume that you’re building a group of close to 250 people from nothing. It’s going to keep growing. That’s going to be very impressive to any potential employer. Is it on your resume?
I believe so.
Make sure it is. When you go for this next job, make sure that you spend time talking about it because I would love to hire someone, not just because I’m the Meetup guy. Anyone that exhibits that kind of leadership is great. One of the things that I read about and saw in your group in terms of the photos is you have some people that are college students, more middle-aged, and people in their 70s even.
One of the big challenges in this world is ageism. It goes both ways. People in their twenties are thinking or speaking disparagingly about people that are middle-aged or seniors and vice versa. Seniors are saying, “Those Gen Zers don’t know anything.” How is the dynamic when you have a 50-plus age gap between sometimes attendees? Does it matter or not? Is it nice to have that?
It doesn’t matter at all. Everyone engages with one another regardless of their age. I don’t see any evidence of age discrimination in my group.
Does it bring something to the group? Is it not negative to have that experience?
The elders bring their experience and knowledge to the group. The person who has come to almost every meeting of my group is my neighbor. He’s in his 70s. He’s a landscaper. He’s retired. Naturally, anything with the environment would interest him because he has worked outside for his whole life. He knows a lot about plants and everything. He’s a huge knowledge base.
People must love him.
Unfortunately, he doesn’t have a mic, so he just chats jokes throughout the meeting, which is still awesome.
We will pay for his mic. Buy a mic. We will expense it. I’ll send you my Zelle. I’ll donate the mic for the guy. Let me know. I’m happy to donate it because this guy sounds as great as he is. Tell me what it is, and I’ll send some money over to you to get this person a mic. Seriously, let’s do that. Let’s talk about your group being online. I believe you’ve had some in-person events as well.
I never have, but I intend to once this pandemic is practically over.
You’re going to have a first in-person event. What do you think you’re going to do? Is it going to be a hike or something else?
It would be a hike, or we could visit an ecovillage, which is something I’m hoping to talk to you about.
Strive to learn more about the world and then tell others about what you have discovered.
Tell us about ecovillages.
An ecovillage is essentially a sustainable co-housing community. First, I’ll unpack what co-housing is. That involves living together under the same roof with multiple people or it could involve regularly interacting with your neighbors, sharing meals during recreational activities, and supporting each other’s well-being in general.
It sounds like an old kibbutz world a little bit. Keep going.
What makes co-housing sustainable is that you’re using less land, less energy, and fewer building materials per person. Ideally, you would want to have a smaller square footage per person. The problem in our society is we have the opposite. We have single-family homes, which are thousands of square feet when you could very well live in a tiny house of only 400 square feet or have a regular home and have multiple people in there.
It also seems like a great social environment. The environmental impact is clear and, at scale, can have a meaningful impact on sustainability and other related important issues. Socially, it can be an amazing experience for people to live in that kind of arrangement.
It would improve everyone’s mental health. They would be able to make perhaps better decision-making as a household because you would have more perspectives brought to the table. They could divide up the bills as well. It can save you money.
When are you going to be moving into a co-housing?
It’s not now because there’s COVID.
That’s fair enough. When the pandemic ends, do you see yourself living in a co-housing?
Yes, maybe in a year or so.
That’s exciting. I had also heard that you ran in your early twenties for your town council. That’s pretty remarkable even though you didn’t win. That’s my understanding. Is there a minimum age to be in the town council?
Eighteen.
What was that experience like? How did you decide you wanted to do it?
People had the same reaction that you did. It was remarkable that a young person was running. Some people held the sentiments that I wasn’t knowledgeable enough to run.
You’re pretty knowledgeable. Once they start talking to you, they should hopefully realize that.
People judge before they even engage. What I did was I made some posts on my town page. We could talk about anything on there. I suggested that we have solar on the school buildings and the other public buildings and also that we implement energy efficiency measures like energy-efficient appliances, triple pane windows, and better building installation. You could save tons of money that way. Everyone talks about solar but energy efficiency goes hand in hand.
Were people listening to you? Did they take you seriously? Were there debates in town halls? What was the format?
Although I mainly engage with people online, I found that the reception was best when I was talking in person. When I told them about my sustainability ideas, they all seemed to agree with it. Online, people either didn’t care. They thought it would waste the town’s money, or they didn’t believe in climate change whatsoever.
Did you have an in-person gathering where you shared your ideas with people? Were you never able to do that?
There was a fall festival. That’s an event we have every year. We have vendors come out from the town and surrounding areas. What I did is I acted like a vendor and walk around. We had our table. People would run for the town council. I told them what I stood for. I got a lot of people who said they would vote for me when I was walking around. That was the only in-person gathering I went to. Besides that, I had to do some door-knocking.
If it weren’t for COVID, you would be a town council member. I’m still holding to that. It was harder to outset in-person events. Are you going to run again?
I’m going to be moving soon, so probably not.
Clearly, you’re someone who has been a leader for a lot of your life. I have to ask you. We have a rapid-fire set of questions. Here we go. When was the first time that you saw yourself as a leader? How young were you?
I must have been six years old. I wanted to run for president.
What happened?
This was a leadership gesture. There was a book series called Junie B. Jones. You may have heard of it. In that book, there was an event called Job Day. The main character in Junie B. Jones is Junie. She had this event where everyone in her class would dress up as if they were in the career that they wanted to be in the future. They didn’t have such a Job Day at my school. I suggested that we make one to my first-grade teacher, and she agreed. Everyone in the class came in dressed up as nurses and doctors. I dressed up in a black suit as if I were president. It was a fun time.
We know your future. That’s it. Speaking about the future or past, if you could access a time machine and go to any time in the history of the world or the future, when are you choosing? Where are you going? What’s the plan?
Maybe I would go to the past and tell them what happened to our world after accepting fossil fuels as our main source of energy.
Bucket list, what do you want to do?
This goes back to before on why I choose climate change. My philosophy is negative utilitarianism. Have you heard of that?
I know what utilitarianism is. Why don’t you explain what utilitarianism is and then negative utilitarianism? Mill has the famous utilitarian philosophy.
Jeremy Bentham was even earlier than him. Utilitarianism is the idea that as a society and as an individual, we should maximize a particular moral utility. A very commonly chosen utility would be happiness. A positive utilitarian would say that the chief moral aim is to maximize the most amount of happiness for the most amount of people, whereas a negative utilitarian believes that we ought to focus on minimizing as much suffering for the greatest amount of people.
Who’s a philosopher that has led negative utilitarianism?
There have been multiple philosophers. David Pearce is one of them. He is a major one and Peter Singer as well.
It could be argued that the negative impact of suffering is greater than the “positive” impact of happiness. The removal of suffering comes before being able to even be happy for so many people based on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. That’s very interesting. Here’s the last question for you. Here we go. I know the answer, but you’re a surprising guy. Maybe we will get surprised. The big picture is you’re going to live many more years. What do you want to be known as or known by having accomplished in your life?
It’s similar to the last question, but my answer leads up to that. I want to eliminate suffering by the greatest means possible. I would like to get rid of chronic pain conditions and improve well-being. I’m interested in biotech devices. One example would be an infrared sauna. That uses infrared light to heat you to a very high temperature.
There’s a lot of research around the positive impact of that.
There’s a decent amount. There could be a lot more for specific conditions, but it looks promising so far. What I have at home here is a portable infrared sauna. It goes for only a couple of hundred dollars. You get inside, and it warms up to 150 degrees in 5 minutes or so. It’s extremely comfortable. It’s great for the circulatory system. It’s great at lowering inflammation. It requires no effort in exercise. It’s hard to motivate people to exercise, but anyone can sit in a sauna.
Be part of an online Meetup group while you’re sitting in the sauna sweating. Brandon, you are exceptional. Your knowledge and experience are quite remarkable. I’m so glad that we were introduced and had an opportunity to meet. What you’re focused on in terms of permaculture sustainability in the environment, removing suffering, and making the world a better place is something that hundreds of thousands of readers can all learn from and hopefully have. Thank you for being so inspirational to me. I appreciate it.
You’re welcome.
Have a wonderful rest of the day.
You too.
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Thanks for reading this episode with Brandon Emerick. What an amazing individual. This is a college student who did not believe in climate change, and then he changed his philosophy on climate change. He is now one of the biggest supporters of helping people understand and shed light on the massive environmental problem we all have. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and check out my new book, Decide and Conquer. Remember, let’s keep connected because life is better together.
Important Links
- Meetup
- DecideandConquerBook.com
- Permaculture/Sustainable Living Meetup Group – Meetup
- David Pearce
- Peter Singer
Last modified on June 6, 2022
