Departing Sen. Tester on why Congress is broken

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In the pinball-machine-like halls of Congress, there are a few ways lawmakers respond to roving reporters. Many hover around staff-tested talking points. Some go deep into policy. Others aim to avoid, with a look, a phone to the ear or clever use of a back entrance.

Democratic Sen. Jon Tester is in a different group. Those who, more often than not, answer questions simply and directly.

The dirt farmer, former educator and U.S. senator lost his November race to keep his seat. Three times before, he’d put a blue check mark next to an increasingly red state. But 2024 ended his streak. Now, the Senate has flipped to Republicans and, by the way, verified Democrats now have no foothold in the Great Plains.

Tester, now 68, has been instrumental in Congress for nearly 20 years: a negotiator on the bipartisan $1 trillion infrastructure deal, the leading force behind dramatically expanding veterans benefits and a “make-or-break” vote for every presidential administration during his time.

He has broken with Democrats in high-profile votes, including on background checks for guns.

Democratic Sen. Jon Tester of Montana inside his congressional office. Photo by Lisa Desjardins/PBS News

But most recently, the happy warrior has earned headlines for the sharp battle and sheer dollars involved in his race for Senate — at least $270 million, a clear record for the state. His campaign alone spent at least $80 million.

As he exits office, we found the man from Big Sandy most direct and most focused about that issue: the dollars. We spoke Dec. 17 in his emptying office, with bare walls, a few packing boxes and final items still-needing-to-be-boxed scattered about.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Lisa Desjardins, PBS News: What’s this moment feel like for you?

Jon Tester: There’s a bit of sadness. The last two weeks have felt somewhat like a wake to me.

Look, I am not sad about this. I wish that I won. But I think I can focus on farming and if something else comes down the pipe, we can do some of that. But in the end, I’m really lucky. I got to spend 18 years here. Who the hell ever thought I’d get elected to begin with? We got some really good work done. Got some good bipartisan work done.

How do you think campaigning has changed?

The first race I had, all in, both sides, was $27, $28 million. 18 years later, it was over 10 times that amount. The Citizens United decision, McCutcheon and Valeo. The fact is all those have just added more and more money. And it’s allowed candidates to not have to do town meetings, to not have to talk to the press, to basically do their campaigning with TV ads.

It just removes you further and further away from the people. And the only people these folks are talking to now are people that believe exactly the same way they do. And I’m talking both out in the public and with the media. And so that’s not healthy. That’s not good.

With all of this money, is there a change in the pressure for access? How does that work?

I think with all this money, it does a couple of things. It makes you think twice whether you’re going to take up an issue that’s controversial. And yet during my 18 years, it’s caused a real paralysis here where some people have a really good idea that can help, but they know damn well if they do this, because now corporations can put in unlimited amounts of money, they’re going to say, “Why would I? I’m not going to do that fight. I’ll save that for a different time.”

That’s a conversation you’ve had with other senators?

I’ve seen it. I have absolutely seen it. I’ve had bills that I knew were going to tick off certain segments of the business world because it was good for consumers is why I was doing it. And you can take it to a senator and they’d say, “This is really a good idea.” And then they’d have it for about four or five days, come back, say, “Now we’re not interested.”

And I know exactly [what happened.] They went out and run their traps and there was more downside than upside from an impact on their potential reelection.

Republicans say that it’s a free speech issue.

First of all, I think there’s people on both sides that think that this campaign system’s good. And I think there’s a lot more people on both sides who think this campaign system is broken.

It’s not a free speech issue. In the end, if it’s a free speech issue, that means that I have the same free speech — and I’m not poor – but that I’ve got the same free speech as Elon Musk?

Really?

There’s no way in hell you can make that comparison. And now take somebody who’s struggling to buy food that’s on food stamps, that can’t have enough money to buy their prescription drugs? Are you telling me they’re going to have any ability to speak on issues? No.

Do you think Congress is broken separately from this?

Congress is broken because the campaign finance regime has caused them to be broken.

I think one of the biggest issues we have in this country right now is division. Everybody’s incredibly divided on everything. I don’t care what it is. The truth is that if you want to stop the division, make it so people can work together and you can’t work together as long as you got this amount of money coming into these campaigns.

Carl Hulse of The New York Times wrote a story about you as the last Democrat standing on the Great Plains. How do you define the Democratic Party now? And what do you think its future is?

We’ve got a communication problem within the party. We don’t spend enough time getting out to people outside of our bubble.

You’re not breaking through?

Correct. We need to work on getting the platforms to get it out. That’s probably the first thing. What I think killed Democrats this cycle is: immigration, the economy, cost of goods and the border. It shouldn’t have been a surprise six months before the election.

Trump blocking the border deal helped him.

Trump blocked a border deal, but truth is, he knew what he was doing. And I get what the [Biden] administration did, but I don’t agree with them. And unfortunately, that didn’t matter whether I agreed with it or not. I was part of the problem. And it hurt us bad.

The inflation was transitory bulls**t and all that. I get it. And by the way, what has Trump come out with [since the election]? Well, maybe I can’t lower the price of food. The truth is that we needed to focus on the meat and potatoes issues a lot more. We didn’t.

The waiting area outside Sen. Jon Tester’s emptied office. Photo by Lisa Desjardins/PBS News

How would you define Republicans now?

So, I don’t know. Maybe the parties are flipping places. I mean, Trump’s really going after the working man in a big way and he’s getting them, and young people and Hispanics. I think part of it is the message and part of that is getting that message out. We’ve really got to focus on things that are important to people. Not the fringe stuff.

What do you think about Trump right now?

I’m giving him every opportunity to succeed. I’ve talked to a lot of people. I’ve talked to Jay Powell [of the Federal Reserve]. I’ve talked to a lot of folks in the business community. Are people concerned? Yeah, they’re concerned. But I think they’re going to be pushing to do the right thing now.

Here’s the deal. I got up at 2:30 in the morning every Monday. I drove an hour and a half to the airport to fly back here to get back here at 1:00, 1:30, 2:00 Eastern time. This isn’t about them. It’s about the country. I didn’t run for me. I didn’t run for reelection for me. I run for reelection because I believe in this.

I believe in this country. Those people in those agencies, those bureaucrats who get bad-mouthed — whether you’re in the military or whether you’re working in the FBI or Department of Health and Human Services — this isn’t about you. This is about keeping this country a country that our kids and our grandkids can grow up and have success and have quality of life and have freedom to make their own decisions. And so the people that are looking at this, saying, “Geez, I don’t know if I want to do this anymore. It’s getting a little tough.” Buck up. Get after it.

Truthfully. I mean, this is an important time in our history. If they just walk away, man oh man, it’s a big mistake.

What do we get wrong about how this place works or doesn’t work?

I’m not supposed to judge, but there’s a lot of people in here that I don’t know why they’re here. They’re really not serious policymakers. And so my question is: Why are you here?

Is it just because you hate government and you want to stop government from working? Because that’s really a bad idea. Because government has its role. So there’s that.

Maybe people think we hate one another, but we really don’t. I mean, probably nobody politically different than [Utah Republican Sen.] Mike Lee and me. Mike was in, he came to look at the office. He might move in. God bless him if he does. I told him it’s the best office in the Hart [Senate Office Building].

I like the folks I served with. I disagree with their policy. You can disagree without being disagreeable.

But are you unusual that way? Is it becoming more personal?

I think there’s a lot of personal stuff that goes on, but I hope it doesn’t. But I’m telling you there’s a lot of groups out there that really push you to be much more of an obstructionist and argumentative. And that’s just not who I am. That’s not part of who I am. That’s not how my parents raised me. My parents raised me to fight when there’s a reason to fight, and fight like hell if there’s a reason to fight. But that’s a last resort.