INTERVIEW: DFB Pokal in-depth with Rüdiger Ziehl: "Kaiserslautern is a big part of my life, it doesn't matter who we play, we fight to be in Berlin:

Rüdiger Ziehl is the coach of 1 FC Saarbrücken. In his active career he played in defensive midfield between 1996-2010 with FK Pirmansens, 1 FC Kaiserslautern, Wehen Wiesbaden, Tus Koblenz, and VFL Wolfsburg II, scoring 11 goals. He won the Regionaliga-Nord (fourth tier) title with Wolfsburg II in the 18/19 season.

Born in Zweibrücken, the former midfielder, who also played as a defender, moved to 1. FC Kaiserslautern in 1996, from where he joined SV Wehen Wiesbaden of the Regionalliga-Süd, the fourth highest league in 2002. In the 2004/5 season, he moved to TuS Koblenz in the same league, where he remained until 2009.

For the 2009/10 season, he moved to VfL Wolfsburg II in the fourth-tier, where he ended his career in 2011.

He played three hundred and twenty-three games, 66 of them in the 2nd Bundesliga, and 3 in the Bundesliga for 1 FC Kaiserslautern.

After earning the UEFA Pro Coaching Badge, he began the 2012/13 season as an assistant to Lorenz-Günther Köstner at VFL Wolfsburg II. Later that season, he took over as head coach and remained with the club until 2020.

In the 20/21 season, he took over as head coach at 3. Liga club TSV Havelse where the club finished in eleventh.

Ziehl took over 1. FC Saarbrücken at the start of the 21/22 season. The team finished the 22/23 season in fifth place and agonisingly missed out on third place in the promotion play-offs by one point.

Currently in 10th place, the team from the Ludwigsparkstadion has reached the semi-finals of the DFB Pokal after wins against Bayern Munich, Eintracht Frankfurt, and Borussia Mönchengladbach.

The semi-final awaits tonight. I spoke to the fourty-six-year-old about the prospects for the game, the cup run, the special team spirit of the third-tier club, developments in the German game, including the decision to drop Adidas by the DFB, and his career and aspirations:

Firstly, can I ask what do you think about the Germany performances against France and The Netherlands? Can they take that form into the European Championships?

I think it was really impressive that Germany played such a good game against France. It was nice watching the game. Also, the commitment in the game against Netherlands. I have to say it’s a good development. Hopefully, they can continue this style of play and be successful at the Euros as well.

What is your view about the DFB German national team dropping Adidas and signing for Nike after 77 years with the German brand?

It's a new situation. The DFB had to make a decision, and as Nike pay $50m more per year, then you have to think about it, right? It was the same a few years ago when Nike tried to win the contract, but the DFB said no then. Now it is a different financial situation that the federation has.

Could you tell me, as the manager and coach at the club, how much do you get consulted on the design and style of the kit?

We have our ideas, the kit maker, in our case Adidas, has their ideas, and we have to come together and agree. We have excellent kits this season. I'm very happy with Adidas.

We currently have an issue in England where Nike has designed a new England kit and they changed the flag from the traditional historic white background and a red cross, which is our national flag of England, to a purple, red, and pink cross. A lot of England fans are saying that's not our national flag.

I think it's awkward for the fans when the flag is in a different colour. It's an emotive issue. The issue is you have to be successful and win the games, in cream, in pink, in whatever colours, it doesn't matter.

In general however there is always a consultation that happens between the manager, and directors and kit maker when deciding on a kit?

The English football authorities must have agreed to it, yes. At least that is how things are done here.

How many design concepts does a manager get to see before you decide on a kit?

We have our colours blue and black, so there are not big variations, the kit supplier can make two or three different styles and in a small group we consult about the design and agree.

"Managers and directors are consulted on the design of a kit, it's not possible for a kit to be approved without their approval"

Would you talk to your players as well? Would you show them the other designs?

No, they don't generally.

You played as a defensive midfielder between 1996 and 2010 and made 200 professional appearances, including with Kaiserslautern, the four-time champions, now your side will be playing them in the semi-final of the day of Pokal, is it like coming home for you?

It's something special, yes. Our players Julius Biada, Calogero Rizutto, Simon Stehle, Sebastian Jacob, and Marcel Gaus all played for Kaiserslautern, this plays a big part in the semi-final for sure, we all want to show them our ability.

You played with VfL Wolfsburg II in your last two seasons, and in the third tier. In England the second teams, under 23s or under 21s play in a separate league, which is a closed-door league. Do you think it makes sense for second teams to be playing in a professional third tier?

In my view for sure it makes sense, that way you have real competition for the young players. If you only play against other under 23s or under 21s, you don't have the same pressure. When you play in the third or fourth tier you're playing against 30-year-olds, experienced players which is far better for the young players and in front of big crowds. It's the best possible situation, not every player is ready to make the jump from the U19s to the Bundesliga.

As a club manager you manage a wide range of aspects of the club, is it much more expensive for a club to have a team in the fourth or third tier?

There a huge jump from the fourth, the Regionalliga to the third, the Dritte Liga, in terms of the costs for security, transport, players, and salaries but it is worthwhile in terms of media income as the games are shown on Magenta Sports TV in Germany. You have big clubs like 1860 Munich, and Dynamo Dresden in the third division but of course you also have to travel much further which brings of course big costs with it.

When you look at it few of the players from for example of Borussia Dortmund U19s or U23s, make it into the first team, in the current squad there is only one Ole Pohlmann, can you explain why it is that the young players don't make it?

It's much easier to start a career in the Bundesliga with a club which is a bit smaller, where players are not on the top level say Augsburg or Heidenheim, rather than competing at Dortmund or Bayern where the players are world class, that is a step not many players can make directly.

"It's a big jump for young players from the U19 or U23 to the Bundesliga, its better to start in the second tier or at a smaller Bundesliga side"

Let's talk about your opponents on Tuesday; 1 FC Kaiserslautern, in 1998 they made the astonishing march from the second Bundesliga to the first Bundesliga title under Otto Rehagel. You played there then with Miroslav Klose, Germany's all-time leading scorer. What are Rehagel and Miro's 'X Factor'?

Miro is a really good guy. He worked very hard for his success but everybody liked him too, he just got better and better. He started his career in Kaiserslautern and just went on up from there, an inspirational career. Otto’s achievements speak for themselves, European Champion, Meister and European Cup winner with Werder Bremen and much more. He is one of the greats.

A further player you played with at Kaiserslautern is France legend Youri Djorkaeff, what was special about Youri?

He was, at this time, totally outstanding, just a perfect player. To see him in Kaiserslautern and train with him was intense. He won the World Cup in 98, incredible to be around such a player in Kaiserslautern.

The recently deceased Andy Brehme was your coach at Kaiserslautern, a player who incorporates the values of a great generation of German footballers; discipline, commitment, power, strength, vision, what was unique about Andy as a footballer and a person? It's a big loss for German football.

I actually saw Andy just a year ago, Andy was an outstanding person, such a good player, far too young to pass on for sure. The difference with players like Hans-Peter Briegel, Andreas Brehme, Felix Magath, Dietmar Jakobs, or Kalle Rummenigge was that these players had a great mentality, the temperament in the team, we fought and had a great spirit. Andy Brehme was exactly such a player. He fought until the end in every game.

What do you think has been missing for the DFB team since 2014?

It's normal in some ways that there's a transition to a new generation of players, but we haven't seen the same quality. They have many good individual players, but not together for some reason in the last few years.

Do you think that Hansi Flick was not the right coach or Germany stayed too long with Joachim Löw?

Hansi Flick won two titles with Bayern Munich everything, and yet somehow he's not the right coach? I think it's over simplifying things. He was not given enough time. it's similar with the Nike decision. I think it's a bit short-sighted by the DFB.

Let's talk about 1. FC Kaiserslautern. You were in the second team when Otto Rehagel, who also led the Greece team to the 2004 European title, took them from the second Bundesliga to the Meisterschaft, what was so special about that team?

The year before they were relegated for the first time in the history of this club, but the team stayed together. They made a good start and started winning games, but everyone thought by November, December, it's over. But they kept it up, many wins in extra time, with goals in the 95th or 97th minute, and in the end, they were champions. It was the first time, and I think, it was the last time that a promoted side wins the title, probably anywhere in the world.

"Our club are a sleeping giant, every club needs a big investor, the fans want 2. Bundesliga:"

Saarbrücken has had really difficult times in the last 20 years or so, spending much of the time in the second or third tiers in spite of being the only big club in the region, would you welcome a system like in England where large investors can buy the club and take it back into the top tier or Europe? Or do you think it's better to have a member owned club, like in Germany?

A mixed system is the right option, every club needs an investor, because it doesn't work without one, but they don't have to have the majority but it's very difficult financially without one. In particular in the third tier the costs are high, that's why every club wants to get to the second league because of TV money also, and bigger gates. In general I am for the 50+1 however.

What is 1. FC Saarbrücken like as a club?

It's a historic club with a big history, the people here really live it, the fans are incredibly passionate. They are great fans. But playing in the fourth league, and now in the third tier, it's a bit difficult for the region. There is a unique atmosphere here, the club is a real sleeping giant. The fans want more…

In October 23 after losing to Rot-Weiss Essen with the side in 15th you said: "if people are not happy with me I will let someone else take over". But you are still here in spite of being far off a promotion place, has the cup saved your season?

In the league we have only six losses. That's pretty good, but we need more wins. The whole season we have had many chances, but we just don't score enough goals, and that's why we are in 10th place right now. In the cup games we defended pretty well and we had only two or three chances but we took them. That's the big difference. The team showed in every game that we can defend as a team, we can fight as a team, with a great mentality, a great spirit, and I think this is the big difference between the cup games and the league games. We score and we fight harder. The promotion to the 2. Bundesliga is what we want.

"Normally when you play 100 times against Bayern Munich you only win once, we won"

Your profile picture shows you in front of the terrace, with the pyros, and the flags and intense fan scene, talk to me about the feeling when you beat Bayern München. It must have been a little bit mind-blowing?

Normally, when you play 100 times, you only win one game like that one, and this was the moment to win this game against Bayern München. We did this in 96 minutes. Nobody had anything left in the tank, and yet we scored the goal. The whole stadium exploded. Very special indeed.

I was in Italy in 1982 when Gli Azurri won the World Cup, it was incredible the city exploded, all the people in their cars were driving around and celebrating out of the window, was it a big party in Saarbrücken?

Before the game, everybody was talking about the game like, hopefully we have a good game against Bayern Munich and lose only three or four zero. Then that goal and the whole stadium, the whole city exploded, a night to remember, yes.

Eintracht Frankfurt, are also a huge club, especially in the south-west of Germany. What memories do you have from the Eintracht game? They have very intense fans which is a challenge in itself?

Two years ago, they won Europa League and the amazing thing was that we were the better side. It sounds strange saying it but we dominated over the 90 minutes, it made the day easier for me. Of course the result was great too.

"Of course managing a club in England is always attractive"

We are all aware of the great Borussia Mönchengladbach teams of the 1980s, with players like Uli Borowka, Ewald Lienen, and Frank Mill, did you have a sense of awe going into the quarterfinal?

Of course 'Gladbach are a huge club also. At the end the first half they had so many situations to score, but they didn’t. It was the same situation as in the Bayern game. We scored in the 93rd minute. Such a perfect outcome and in the end our defence was outstanding.

You're going into the semi-final now against Kaiserslautern, the game has something of a derby character in South-West Germany which adds to the tension, how will you approach this tie?

The cup game showed me that our team have a great character, mentality, and team spirit, because only with these qualities can you can win games against Bundesliga teams. Kaiserslautern is a big part of my life, but it doesn't matter who our opponent is, we will fight for our chance to be in Berlin.

Among the players who are making the difference this season is former Bradford City AFC striker Kai Brünker who is lead scorer with 14 goals, could you see yourself one day making your way to the English club or further afield like the MLS?

Of course managing a club in England is always attractive, you only need to look at the success of Daniel Farke or Jürgen Klopp to see what is possible, I am a Manchester City fan and I follow the league there. Who knows what comes in the future, for now we have the semi-final ahead, getting to Berlin is our focus.