Forged in Fire: How LGBTQIA+ Leaders Create Impact through Adversity with Bree Fram and Liz Cavallaro

Forged in Fire: How LGBTQIA+ Leaders Create Impact through Adversity with Bree Fram and Liz Cavallaro

All humans go through transitions, and many of us experience challenges that cause us to question who we are and evolve into a more authentic version of ourselves. This is certainly true for every member of the LGBTQIA+ community, who face adversity not once, but as an ongoing experience, in a plethora of ways and situations. And yet, these same experiences can forge incredible leadership qualities. Qualities which have never been more needed in leadership.

In the latest episode of the We are Human Leaders podcast, we speak with Bree Fram and Dr Liz Cavallaro , the authors of the incredible new book, “Forging Queer Leaders, How the LGBTQIA+ Community Creates Impact from Adversity.” We explore how the unique experiences of queer leaders give rise to incredible leadership capabilities, the profound and positive impact of vulnerability and authenticity in the workplace and steps allies can take today to ensure a more inclusive environment at work and beyond.

Formative experiences that create leadership superpowers

We explore how crucible experiences can give rise to an array of key leadership attributes. As Liz explains, “Crucible experience means going through something in life where on the other side of that experience, you are different. Life is different. You have been transformed in some way that is substantive and meaningful.” 

Liz and Bree also unpack the powerful skills that the inner work inherent to coming out and gender transition can grant us. As Bree explains,

“Coming out is like getting master's level credit in risk and opportunity management. And coming out is not a one time process. Coming out happens over and over again.” 

She describes how the ongoing experience of coming out builds a high level of attunement to an environment, whether it’s a personal or professional situation: “This skill is really valuable, especially when you turn it from ‘protecting myself from the risks’ to ‘seeking the opportunities’.”

And this attunement is helpful in informing a transformational leadership approach, one which Bree endorses. “Transformational leadership is really about taking care of people and realizing that people have unique skill sets, different abilities, and different motivations.”

She advocates a strong focus on caring for the individual and understanding what motivates that individual. Then, as a leader, you can take steps to support that journey. “I want to start with, who are you? What are you passionate about? What recharges your batteries? And how can I be there to help and support you?”


Holding space for multiple perspectives

We dig deep into some of the incredible work that forms the book, including the kinds of development that LGBTQ+ leaders experience and how these translate into a heightened ability to empathize and understand. As Liz explains:

“When people become more sophisticated and complex in how they think and how they make sense of the world, they have the skill set to look across multiple different perspectives or through different lenses, and look across seemingly disconnected or disparate or even conflicting ideas and see patterns, themes, or trends, and be able to draw those out and notice those. Even when it seems like there's a complete disconnection or even a paradox between ideas.”

As she goes on to summarize, “The experiences that LGBTQ+ leaders have gone through make them likely to be able to hold space for and understand multiple perspectives.”

Bree and Liz are careful not to frame this as some kind of toxic positivity or negation of the truth of what LGBTQ+ leaders have experienced. “By acknowledging a negative experience, even if it was very negative, it doesn’t make it okay or forgive that this adversity was faced. But it empowers individuals to look at their own journey and see where they can build a different relationship to or perspective on hard things in their life.”


Transition as a learning journey

Bree shares her personal experience as a trans woman, and the ways in which it’s impacted her life and leadership. She is succinct: “Transition took off my blinders and it unlocked my empathy.”

She also shares how her lived experience as both a man and a woman gives deep insight into the different parameters in which genders operate in our society and the different standards and expectations.

“Walking down a dark street at night, where I would have done so without a thought, now I actually have to think about that and look around and understand the environment in a deeper way.”

Listen to the full episode here.

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