How to Make an Internal Move at Work

A lot of people look for new opportunities at other organizations without thinking about making an internal move at their current employer. Yet, an internal move can be worth the effort since it will increase your tenure at an employer and bring valuable cross-functional knowledge to the company.

If you're currently employed and contemplating a career move, Neil Lenane , who is the Progressive Insurance 's business leader of talent acquisition, joins LinkedIn News Editor Andrew Seaman to shed light on the often-overlooked option of internal movement. Neil offers insights and lessons from his more than three decades at Progressive that may inspire your own professional journey.

You can listen to the episode above or on Apple Podcasts by clicking here. A transcript of the conversation is available below.

TRANSCRIPT: How to Make an Internal Move at Work

Andrew Seaman: A lot of people who want to look for a new opportunity immediately start exploring roles outside of their current employers. Yet, a job change doesn't always mean you need to move to a new company or organization. We're talking all about it on today's episode right after this break.

From LinkedIn News, this is Get Hired, a podcast for the ups and downs and the ever-changing landscape of our professional lives. I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn Senior Managing Editor for Jobs and Career Development, bringing you conversations with experts who, like me, want to see you succeed at work, at home, and everywhere in between. Once upon a time before I came to LinkedIn, I felt a little stuck in my career. I had worked my way up over the years and kind of hit a ceiling. Internally, I didn't know where to move. There could only be so many managers in my part of the business, and the position didn't seem like it was going to open up anytime soon. Instead of looking outside of the organization, I chatted with people I knew in other parts of the business. Pretty soon, I made a move and was able to capitalize on all the time I spent on that employer.

It was a great move and frankly, I was disappointed in myself for not thinking about it earlier. If you're currently employed and thinking about making a move, this episode is for you. Hopefully it will illuminate a path where you already are or at least gets you curious about making a similar move in the future. We're joined today by someone who knows a lot about this, Neil Lenane, who is Business Leader of Talent Acquisition at Progressive. Neil has been with Progressive for more than three decades, but he wasn't always in HR. In fact, he spent about a decade as a claims adjuster, team leader, and branch manager. He's joining us today to talk a bit about his journey and the lessons you should know to make an internal move in your career. Here's Neil.

Neil Lenane: My career actually started with Aetna and then I later moved to Progressive Insurance Company, which was really profound in my life in terms of the amount of experiences that I've had just running up the ladder, so to speak. Eventually, my claims career reached its height when I was the head of claims for New York City. Some opportunities presented itself to finally jump into human resources and I took advantage of the opportunity and then again reinvented my career. And then about eight years ago, I moved into being the head of talent acquisition. So in summary, with Progressive alone, 33 years, 10 roles, eight different locations, and a couple of the roles were even step-downs in levels so that I can obtain some of those critical skills.

Andrew: That's fantastic. When you entered Progressive all those years ago, was your goal to eventually move into HR since that's what your degree was in?

Neil: The goal was always to move into HR and unfortunately after college, but not many entry level roles existed, and so most of those were corporate headquarters, regional. So the opportunities did not afford me, but I always had that eye of working towards human resources. I'm fascinated with it. I played sports in school, I coached, and the human resources has a lot of parallels, and so I made that move to Progressive. I think Progressive was one that had a very strong internal movement culture and the opportunity to kind of drive your career ultimately is what drove me to specifically that company.

Andrew: Getting to the idea of internal mobility, one of the things that we see very frequently now is especially with younger generations, they like to jump from employer to employer a little bit more than previous generations. Do you think that there's a better way?

Neil: I think today people moving from place to place is actually quite helpful in a lot of regards, and one of the advice that I always give to young folks in talking about career advancement is be willing to do something different every three years. That could be a new role, that could be evolving yourself in your current role, maybe taking on a different responsibility within that role. I think that's important because you're acquiring new critical skills and experiences that are building blocks to the next step. So today I think it's actually quite natural for job seekers to look for new experiences if particularly their current situation isn't providing them, but want people to continue to grow. And I think if they need to do that by going to a different organization, great move for them.

Andrew: What do you think are the conditions where people should maybe first look within their company? As someone who's in the talent organization, Progressive I assume likes to keep their high performers right?

Neil: No doubt. Retaining your top talent is a key talent initiative in all companies, and it's what separates great companies from not so great companies. So folks should look internally. I think the key is making your intentions known a lot of times and sometimes just having those conversations with leaders in the organization is, "Hey, I'm Andrew, I'm Neil and I'm excited to move forward," and then doing those things necessary to learn more about your company's business. I think those are key things. Anytime you can learn about the operation, it just makes you more valuable.

Other advice I would give is continue to be really good in your current role. And then lastly, every organization has what I call organizational attributes or dispositions about them. A company may be very analytical, they may be a company that likes to change things a lot. Understanding those attributes and how you fit in. So if you're a company's analytical, what are you doing to build your skills in that area? If they're very customer focused, how do you demonstrate your customer service skills? If they're used to frequent change, how are you showing how you adapt to evolving environments? So those are things I think you can do while you're inside your company, even from an internal movement perspective.

Andrew: And I assume it's also just beneficial to work on those areas there's an emphasis on because it shows that you're willing to grow and you're also learning to take on new challenges, right?

Neil: Our first CEO used to say, "Risk, learn, grow," right? Career internal movement is about taking some risks, placing some bets on yourself, always be willing to learn, and then you hit the last point, the growth mindset. Always challenge yourself to be growing and sometimes that may mean seeking out and acting on feedback. For example, "Hey, I didn't get the job." Very disappointing at times I get it, but then move into that next gear about, "Let's try to figure out why I didn't get that job and what things can I improve upon for the next time." It's really all about competing. Really internal movement is about learning how to compete.

Andrew: Also, to get back to people who may feel a little unsettled or restless in their current position, where do you suggest people start to find out what else is out there in their organization? Because I know that there's maybe some specifics per organization, like you have to inform your manager or something like that, but how do you even start that process to say what else is out there?

Neil: Well, I think you hit number one, have the conversations because sometimes your manager may be aware of some opportunities that may be coming up. Don't be afraid to kind of drive the bus, create your own development plan, and that may start with taking some assessments and then maybe signing up for some coaching based on the results of those assessments. So, oh, I learned that I may have opportunities in building relationships. Those are key things in my organization, so there's an opportunity to grow from there. Every organization's got some kind of learning organization to it, whether you can take some formal training, but when you think about how people grow, Andrea look at a model of say 70, 20, 10, most people are going to learn on the job. That could be their current role. They could swap jobs, they could get stretch assignments where you take on something that you've never had any experience around.

Could be an action learning project where you lead a group and have the opportunity to do some things that you've never thought about doing before. The other part of when we talk about 70, 20, 10 and how people learn. That 20% is interacting with other people, mentorships, could be sponsors, and then 10% is formal lending. What things does my organization offer me in terms of formal training in a classroom setting, whether it's virtual or live? And two other things, every organization has a job opportunity listing, constantly exploring, see what's out there. Sometimes it's really good like, "Hey, I'd like to learn more about that job. Could I job shadow it? Can I spend some time sitting with someone who does that job?"

Andrew: I think those are really good ideas and something that I think is a common fear among people who are considering internal moves. And I know this was a fear of mine at a previous employer, which is I kind of want to make a move, but I also know that my current manager doesn't want to lose me. So how do you navigate some of those relationships? How do you suggest people start that conversation with their manager and how they frame it?

Neil: I would imagine most managers strategically will want something that is best for the business. And you hit on something earlier about retaining people at a company is critical. So all of us are going to evolve. If we take the mindset we're all going to leave at some point, we're either going to change roles, we're all going to leave the company. If you take that from a growth mindset, we're all going to try to help folks advance. That's part of internal movement. And so you would hope that your leader embraces like, Hey, we know you're going to want to grow and do some things differently. But occasionally an employee sitting down and just being transparent, "Hey, I've enjoyed working in the organization. I've learned a lot in your team. I have aspirations to doing something different and I'd love for you to help me." People always can relate to when you come to them and say, "Hey, will you help me improve and move forward?" I think that's a good way to kind of set the table, be open-minded, be willing to ask for help. Most people respond positively to those things.

Andrew: We will be right back with Neil Lenane.

Andrew: And we're back with Neil Lenane, Progressive Insurance's Business Leader of Talent Acquisition. I assume the actual process of moving internally is also just about selling yourself like you would during any job search where you have to sort of make the case for the move and also why you're the best choice for that right?

Neil: One element I think is always great to share with folks who are interviewing is what do I bring new and different to the role? I noticed in your organization most of your folks have had this experience. I've got this one experience that's unique that may be additive to the team. So the team gets organically a diversifying their skillsets if they're bringing some folks that bring an element that's different to the team, and I think that's where folks can differentiate themselves.

Andrew: And also the cross-functional assets I think that an internal move brings is really so beneficial to a company to say, not only can I do this job, but I've also done this job and I could bridge the gap between these two teams that has been there.

Neil: You couldn't have said it any better.

Andrew: And one thing that is often a roadblock for people, and one of the reasons people often look instinctively outside their organization is pay, and there is some statistics around the idea that if you make external moves, your pay will increase more than if you make internal moves. Do you think that there's any way to counteract that or do you have to go in with a serious negotiation? What is your suggestion for that?

Neil: Listen, pay is very important. It's an extrinsic value that can't be overlooked. So every person who's looking at a job opportunity looks at extrinsics and intrinsics, what satisfactions, what motivates me? Is this the right fit for my role? But extrinsics things, the awards that they get for their contributions is also important. I would think doing some work upfront about the jobs that are available that I think I could be good fits and understanding what those jobs pay. Sometimes taking the lateral movement to get the experience may be a value at that moment in time. There were even a couple opportunities in my 10 roles where I took a step back and the comp was pretty close, but what I gained in terms of the skills for the nine months that I was enrolled allowed me to propel myself into a very higher paying job internally. So I think people may assume the external may pay more. I think you have just as equally of a chance internally to be able to flush those things out and find the right spot that'll actually help continue to grow from the compensation part of it.

Andrew: Yeah. And then once you sort of land that position, you're also on board a little bit longer to help with the transition for your old role too. So I assume that could be also a selling point to say, "Hey, listen, if I move into this role, I'm still going to be around to answer questions and help whoever fills in my spot," right?

Neil: No doubt. It's sort of paying it forward, "Hey, someone was there to help onboard me and coach and mentor me. Here's your opportunity." And again, don't overlook the fact that you're actually picking up another skill in that regard. You're helping the next person in your role and you're kind of doing a little onboarding and mentoring yourself. So it continues to add value to the new person to the role, and it also gives you an opportunity to pick up a new skill along the way.

Andrew: And then what other challenges do you think sometimes people face making internal moves, plotting your trajectory internally?

Neil: The unknown, right? Change. I know all about my job. I'm doing it well. What's my disposition to coming out of my comfort zone? Will something occur from a business strategy that will change what that role is about or what that particular team is? So I think in most instances, and really it probably applies for both internally, externally, and maybe a little more externally is the unknown.

Andrew: Yeah. And how do you suggest people maybe stay adaptable and nimble? Because I think always that's usually the best defense against the unknown is you're on a trajectory and all of a sudden they say, "You know what? We're not going to do this level anymore," or, "We don't need this area of business," how do you suggest people guard against it the best they can?

Neil: You and I talk about constantly picking up new skills and experiences, and so that nimble comes is the more I bring to the table, the more fluid, the more likely I'm able to absorb the different changes because I may have seen that particular experience occur. And that's where I try to encourage folks is whether you stay in your current role or not, try to do something different about your role every three years or so for that exact reason, because change happens more rapidly today than ever before. And so constantly picking up new experiences, skills, situations allows you to be a better decision maker, a problem solver, more amenable to change, more adaptable, and then you weather those kinds of changes a lot easier the more you bring to the table.

Andrew: The other question that I have too with all of this is maybe you're not feeling fulfilled or you're searching for something more. What do you think are signs that people should say, "Okay, I really need to look outside of this organization"?

Neil: First question, am I still growing? Am I still learning? Do I still have that fire and that passion every day that I walk in here? Or do I see signs of complacency like I still perform well, but I'm not growing as a person, learning some new things, getting put in challenging situations where I can thrive in future ones? And then I like to tell folks is when they're thinking about job changes, "Hey, you're the CEO of your own family. At some time you'll have to make some decisions that are in their best interest of your family." I may need to be moving to a new location from a family perspective, I may need more pay. And then lastly, as the CEO of my own family, where do I feel in terms of my total rewards package and is it meeting mine and my family's needs?

Andrew: Yeah, I think those are all really good. And also those challenges that you face. How do you feel going to work every day? And I always tell people at the end of the day, your job is still going to be a job some days, but hopefully on balance most of them are good days.

Neil: Absolutely. You hit a key point that you made me think of it in that last sentence is when I show up every day at work, can I be my authentic self? Where do I fit in and do I agree with that direction and how it fits with my value system?

Andrew: And is there anything else that you think people should know about moving internally or plotting an internal trajectory?

Neil: I'll say the minute I get a new role, I immediately start thinking about maybe one or two next steps. Here's why. If I have a roadmap to where I'm going next, I then kind of figure out, "Okay, if I want to go here, what will I need to be good at in that role? Where am I going next because I don't want to miss out on an opportunity if someone says, hey, you have a chance to do this." I'm like, "Hey, that's great, because that fits in what I'm looking to do," in the future pick up that skill or experience that I need to be on that role.

Andrew: Well, thank you so much Neil. I really appreciate your time.

Neil: Hey, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Andrew: That was Progressive Insurance's Business Leader of Talent Acquisition, Neil Lenane. Remember, it's up to you to put the advice into practice. Still, you always have a community backing you up and cheering you on. Connect with me and the Get Hired community on LinkedIn to continue this conversation. Also, if you like this episode, please take a moment to leave us a rating on Apple Podcast. It helps people like you find the show. And of course, don't forget to click that follow, subscribe, or whatever other button you find to get our podcast delivered to you every Wednesday because we'll be continuing these conversations on the next episode right here, wherever you like to listen. 

Get Hired is a production of LinkedIn News. This episode was produced by Alexis Ramdaou. Asaf Gidron engineered our show, Joe DiGiorgi mixed our show. Dave Pond is head of news production. Enrique Montalvo is our executive producer. Courtney Coup is the head of original programming for LinkedIn. Dan Roth is the editor in chief of LinkedIn. And I'm Andrew Seaman. Until next time, stay well and best of luck.