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Interview with Follow This | Shareholders change the world

By: Dirk Kok

This year, Follow This will again present its motion to oil and gas companies: come up with ambitious climate goals and adhere to the Paris Agreement. Allies of Follow This in the previous vote at Shell included pension giant Nest, France's AM Amundi, Rathbones, Scottish Widows, and Candriam. This group of 27 investors manages a total of €3.9 trillion and owns about 5% of Shell. At ExxonMobil, Follow This attempted to address climate goals as well. In response, Exxon filed a lawsuit against Follow This in January 2024, labeling the investors ‘activists’. At the table, we have Communication & Media Chief Karel Kuipéri and CEO Mark van Baal .

Exxon made more than 55 billion USD in profit in 2022. A lawsuit against them seems like a Herculean task. How does Follow This keep its back straight?

Mark: "It's simple: stay calm and see how it develops. We're still alive and we're still sleeping. A lawsuit is intimidating, but climate change is more intimidating. The fact that Exxon is filing a lawsuit is proof of how effective climate resolutions are. The lawsuit is meant to show: critical shareholders? We don’t like that, you guys need to leave!"

Karel: "With this Exxon strengthens the fossil-free and divestment movement. Small NGOs, but also large investors, don't like lawsuits. It's unusual to sue your own shareholders. Exxon doesn't think we are actual shareholders, but activists disguised as shareholders. This way, they are side-stepping the arguments for change. Exxon is investing in infrastructure that will be obsolete in 30 years, rendering it worthless. Without change in the oil industry, Exxon and Shell will eventually inevitably face bankruptcy, in a world that is 4-5 degrees warmer."

you mention divestment, selling all the shares. Why do you see that as a less favorable option?

Mark: "Because then you lose all your influence and your shares are taken over by less responsible shareholders. Oil companies just keep going, but without your influence. This way, Exxon and Shell still threaten the global industry by continuing with oil and gas. Divesting is a statement you can only make once. You can only say: 'we're stepping out' once. Then an oil company will act indignant for a moment: 'But we had such constructive discussions, didn’t we?' But the thought process is simply: 'Great, another critical shareholder gone.'"

what does impact mean for Follow This?

Mark: "Most oil companies have goals to reduce their CO2 emissions. These goals are not sufficient and are far off, but at least oil companies have started to take responsibility. That was out of the question when we first started. Initially, we were dismissed as unreasonable. Shell said, 'We are not responsible for what our customers do with our products. You want oil and gas, it's your responsibility what you do with it.'"

Karel: “Nowadays, it has become standard to talk to an oil company about overall impact, including scope 3, which encompasses the emissions from the use of oil products by consumers. We have introduced an extra factor into the equation, revealing who votes for what, and preventing financial institutions and large investors from hiding behind a good conversation. Put your vote where your mouth is, is what we say."

what is needed from society to contribute to the change of fossil fuel companies?

Karel: "By investing in shares of fossil fuel companies through our organization, citizens can gain a stake and a vote in shareholders' meetings. This empowers individuals to directly influence the oil giants. The feedback we get is that this gives people a sense of reassurance."