MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
As the Senate impeachment trial nears a final vote, the man at the center who continues to make news - probably despite his best intentions - is the chief justice of the United States, John Roberts. NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg joins me now, and, Nina, you had predicted he would keep a very low profile.
NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: He has kept a low profile. You know, the chief justice makes almost a fetish of being well-prepared. He never makes a public appearance where he has not prepared some kind of delightful historical story that's exactly on point. And even in the Supreme Court chamber, he tries to keep order so that - to make sure that the lawyers get a chance to answer one justice's question before another one piles on. And watching him during the impeachment trial, it seems he's not seeking the limelight, but he's not afraid of it, either. So last week, at roughly 1 in the morning of a very late night, when he had two major adversaries from the trial before him spitting nastiness, he intervened, and here's what he said.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
JOHN ROBERTS: In the 1905 Swain trial, a senator objected when one of the managers used the word pettifogging, and the presiding officer said the word ought not to have been used. I don't think we need to aspire to that high a standard, but I do think those addressing the Senate should remember where they are.
KELLY: I remember, Nina, I was hosting live coverage at that moment, and you could hear the room fall silent. And we were all going, wow, what is pettifogging? Quick - look it up.
TOTENBERG: (Laughter) Making false claims.
KELLY: Yes. Things got hotter from there.
TOTENBERG: Yes, things got hotter when Senator Rand Paul this week, trying to get an unproven conspiracy into the record, sent up a question to the desk for the chief justice to read naming a person who Paul said could be the whistleblower. And here's what happened.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ROBERTS: The presiding officer declines to read the question as submitted.
KELLY: What was your take on that moment, Nina? Do you think John Roberts was surprised...
TOTENBERG: No.
KELLY: ...By this attempt?
TOTENBERG: No. I think he undoubtedly thought somebody was going to try to do this. He relies enormously on the parliamentarian. They were ready for this. The identity of the whistleblower is protected by the Whistleblower Protection Act, as you well know, Mary Louise. And if that individual is a member of the Intelligence Community, there are other laws that make it illegal to reveal his identity, so they were ready.
KELLY: Which does not mean that Senator Paul was happy...
TOTENBERG: No.
KELLY: ...About how this played out.
TOTENBERG: He was very unhappy, agitated - stormed out of the Senate chamber, abandoning his post as a juror to hold a press conference in which he said that Roberts made an incorrect ruling. He said the question had nothing to do with the whistleblower, and then he proceeded to read aloud the name of an individual.
KELLY: So a couple of the more dramatic moments where we saw John Roberts step in here, but you have reported his objective in overseeing this trial was, I need to protect the Supreme Court.
TOTENBERG: That's exactly right. But he also is the face of the judiciary, the third branch of government, and he is a graceful wearer of that crown. So while I think he likely thought the question that I'm about to play for you was an attempt at intimidation, he had a total poker face when he read it.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ROBERTS: Question from Senator Warren is for the House managers. At a time when large majorities of Americans have lost faith in government, does the fact that the chief justice is presiding over an impeachment trial in which Republican senators have thus far refused to allow witnesses or evidence contribute to the loss of legitimacy of the chief justice, the Supreme Court and the Constitution?
TOTENBERG: And way, way smarter than Warren's question is the answer that came immediately from Adam Schiff, the lead House manager.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ADAM SCHIFF: Senator, I would not say that it contributes to a loss of confidence in the chief justice. I think the chief justice has presided admirably.
TOTENBERG: In other words, don't ask such a foolish question.
KELLY: So headline - do you think he will come out of this reputation unscathed?
TOTENBERG: Yeah, I think so.
KELLY: That was NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg.
Thank you, Nina.
TOTENBERG: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF KMD SONG, "GET U NOW")
Copyright © 2020 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.