This is me at my best...

I've discovered a rare experience in life. And it's captured on video. It's the surreal feeling of looking back at yourself wondering what got into me. I'm watching my best self - like next-level - the me I aspire to be.

Every 7th issue of THE BRIGHT SIDE features something personal. In honor of May being Mental Health Month, this transcript of my interview with Jody Birnberg, host of the LifeMaven Podcast, speaks for itself.

Herein you'll find how I've learned to defeat depression and keep burnout at bay as well as what, why and how certain techniques and skills can free our headspace for us all to have better days.

The 24-minute interview is also available to view below. If there's anything of me and what I speak to that I'd like you to see (or read) more than anything else to date, it's this.

Lastly, I've created some call-outs to break up the copy and give you something more to think about and, hopefully, do.

ENJOY THE SHOW!

JODY:

Welcome to “The Life Maven podcast,” where you can learn to live in the energy of your legacy now. And one of the people to help us today is Matt Zinman. He is amazing…

He wrote a book called, “Z-isms: Insights to Live By.” I read the book. You've got to get this book. It is so interesting. It embraces his experiences as an entrepreneur, an athlete, a single parent - which he was for many years - a caregiver, a nonprofit founder and a defeater of depression and burnout. Don't we all need that.

Welcome Matt. I'm so glad you're here today.

MATT:

Thank you, Jody. Great to be with you. It's a pleasure.

JODY:

How do you live the energy of your legacy now?

MATT:

I just look on the bright side every chance I get.

I think that we have a choice when it comes to our optimism and pessimism; and life is “a life.” And the more that we have that control in order to find those Silver Linings - I think it has a lot to do with our daily happiness.

JODY:

What does resilience have to do with that?

MATT:

Just about everything I would say.

You know, resilience is one of those things - as is presence - that I've really landed on through all the work I've done over these past number of years - and all the content development - is really what goes to the heart of the skill, which people I don't think necessarily look at resilience proactively as a skill. They think of it as - you know - I've just been through everything I have and I'm this or that resilient.

I'm looking at it as something that’s underdeveloped that people can work on to really do some of what I was speaking to. So, for example, honing a reflex of positivity, which is a term that I get into called “Happierness,” which combines resilience and presence.

But when we come to resilience, we're really dealing with the “Negativity Bias” that we have. Recognizing that we're a little hard-wired to gravitate toward worrying or being anxious or the things where our brains go.

And being resilient is about pushing back and balancing things out with more of a conscious “Positivity Bias,” along those lines. And then, of course, I think people are pretty familiar with resilience and the qualities of it.

JODY:

Yeah, but do you ever think it's kind of like fighting your - you know - if you really are feeling down or you really feel like you just don't have it, it's kind of like fighting yourself…

MATT:

I mean, look, we all have our days. And, as you mentioned, I've personally had to contend with depression since my teens. I know what the “Depths of Despair” are…

And, you know, some things are in your control and some things are not. Are we talking about our brain chemistry? Where our “biochemical reality” shifts to a point where it's not really within our control or do we have that control and how do we apply that?

You know, for me, just to get really practical here, Jody -

Whether it's just depression or - at a lesser degree - just Mood Health and managing that - we're all going to have our bad days. We're all going to have a couple of bad days in a row, or weather is affecting us.

For me, the way that I've learned to manage my depression is having a “Three-Day Rule,” because if I go three days in that headspace, my synapses start slowing down. I start… stalling - and it gets harder and harder. It's almost like you're sinking into quicksand.

So I know for myself, and everyone is different, but I think most people can relate to this - that if you just “self-parent” when you get to that third day – like, “I'm not going to let this happen. I'm not going to let today get to a day four.”  

And you're definitely at that point going to be like that, “Uhghh, I don't want to go to the gym,” all the things. But you know what, you go to the gym. Sweat! Do something physical. Get outside in nature. Don't lay around. Structure your day. All the things that you need to do to be more proactive on that Day Three is going to make a huge difference.

And, lastly, I think that the way you motivate yourself to push through that quicksand, however deep you're in, is to recognize the balance of what happens if you don't.

It's going to be a lot worse if you don't because you know what it's like to feel that much more depressed. So, it's almost like regret - using that as a motivation: “I'm going to regret this more than not doing it.”  Well. same thing here. It makes it easy, easier to say, “I know I've got to get myself in a better headspace before it's going to be harder to get out of one.”

JODY:

What does self-care have to do with it?

MATT:

I think, well it's a lot. I mean, I think when people think about self-care across the board, the general - you know - four modalities: your physical health, your mental health, your emotional health, your spiritual health.

So, on one hand - at a higher level - in that way, and our only - each of us being more self-aware, at any given time, we ought to be able to - knowing ourselves - to self-diagnose:

"I haven't gotten enough sleep,” or “I'm run down,” or “I'm stressed,” in the physical. Or, the emotional or mental… what is that? Or, “I’ve got to feed my soul a little bit.”

But the thing that I also speak to that is really underlying all of it - is overthinking. And that really speaks to the presence side of why I think that's so important. Because – honestly – I think that overthinking is the greatest source of unhappiness in people's lives. And, even worse yet, they don't realize it because we don't know how often we're in our own heads and not actually in the present, engaged with the world.

So, in addition to those four modalities, you really need to tackle overthinking. Even if you're going to the gym, or yoga, or all the things that you do, and you're drinking water - and getting your sleep, you're still not going to have that ultimate peace of mind and true health if you're not addressing the things that you're… not controlling that are going through your head and taking up your headspace in a negative way.

JODY:

So, what do you do? You just say, “Oh, look what I'm doing.” I mean, to me, sometimes we're in the thick of it… we can't really see.

MATT:

Yeah... I think part of it has to do with, well, there are different kinds of overthinking. So, on one hand, someone might be more of a worrier or have anxiety. Or they make assumptions. So I'll come back to that category of “uncertainties,” if you will.

Other people are dealing with self-esteem and confidence challenges and so they're inner critic, Impostor Syndrome, those sorts of things are swirling through their heads.

And, some people just… we all have busy minds. You know, like, we can't control it.

There was a statistic out for a long, long time that’s, oh, “We have 60-to-70,000 thoughts go through our heads every day." It's actually not true. It was a stat that got out there that's wrong. It's more like 6,000. But that's still six and a half thoughts, on average, per minute during our waking hours.

It's just how our minds work.

And, giving ourselves grace, of course we can't control that. But there are some things that we can do to put some guardrails up for ourselves.

So, for example, working backwards - with the inner critic - one of the underlying mindset techniques that I think is really paramount. Just in the same way that we speak to resilience and presence being underdeveloped skills, is Self-Kindness as a skill.

And in this way I look at the fact that, again people think, “oh, Self-Kindness, yeah, self-compassion,” and they're a little bit loose about it.

But, when it comes to personal development, I think the challenge people have is that it can be very vague. It's like, you feel a certain way about yourself, you want to feel better about yourself one way or another, but it's really tough to go from here to there.

And what's different about Self-Kindness, Jody, is that it's definitive.

You're either being kind to yourself, or you're not being kind to yourself. It's clear-cut.

And so that gives you some control over knowing how it is that you're treating yourself in that way. It's like a barometer. And you have to buy-in first. You have to think to the fact of, well, “Is there any reason why I should be anything less than kind to myself?”

And that, you know, that seemingly is a rhetorical question. And if you have a hard time answering that question, you already know where to begin… is being able to answer that question.

But once you do, you can be more proactive in applying some of the things that you're putting yourself through – torture-wise. Whether that's your inner critic and recognizing like, “that's not me,” you know that's my hard-wiring.

To go a step deeper on this point and then I'll come over to the “uncertainties,” and we're just, we're just going “boom, boom” here, I want to get a lot in here… is to name your inner critic. And, you name your inner critic - you disassociate in the sense of - it's got to be a name of somebody you don't know…

JODY:

Let me just mention a bit, because you brought up something and I really do want to...

MATT:

Yeah. Yeah, please stop me.

JODY:

No, I mean no no... I love what you're saying. It's just that you just really ignited something for me.

MATT:

Sure.

JODY:

MATT:

Yeah, yeah.

JODY:

… and that “I’m never going to leave you again,” some sort of reminder that, “I deserve that.”

And what I'm hearing from you is that, and something that I can look at physically because my brain - as you say - we have all these thoughts…

MATT:

Right.

JODY:

We get so distracted. And I love what you were saying about that. And I just wanted to, that sort of brought up for me, I just wanted to add that because it was just really…

MATT:

It's a good idea. I mean, you really want to kind of bring things to the forefront because a lot of what we're talking about - in part of this overthinking - is happening somewhere between the subconscious and the conscious. We're not always aware - especially with depression.

You could be beating yourself up for half an hour and not realize what you were doing and it's too late. And, it's like, “why… why,” right?

People get that.

But, when it comes to what you're describing and - it's a great suggestion - I actually speak to the same thing, which is - my inner critic is “Fred.” And, for your audience, maybe it's “Wilma.”

JODY:

[laughs] – Fred and Wilma [smiles].

MATT:

And, Fred and Wilma - you know – “you're going to have these thoughts,” and you recognize, “That's my inner critic. That's my superego. That's not me.” And you can disassociate and say, “you know, Wilma, ‘Take a hike!’ - that's not what I say to myself.”

And, to your point, going another step further, I think is wonderful - which is - yeah, either get a picture of you - really because you're talking about yourself. Get a picture of yourself as a kid that you identify with as, “yeah that's me,” and something that holds special meaning to you - and the next time you start saying those things to yourself - apply it to that picture.

Would you ever say that to that little kid? Let alone would you let a friend speak to you that way? So, I think that really hits on that really fast and in a pointed way.

I want to come over to the worries and uncertainties, because a lot of us are in that habit. And it is a habit. And some people even say, “Well, worrying is how I get things done.” They normalize it. And that's the last thing to do, because it's not normal. It's really self-torture. And it's - you know - it's not good for your health.

But the grounding concept, and I know you know this from the book, and one of the reasons I wrote it in being chapter one - is called Earned Confidence.

Now you've mentioned in the introduction a number of things that I've been through in life. We've all been through everything that we have in our lives and Earned Confidence speaks to the fact that - we're still standing.

You know everything that we've overcome and the fact that we're here -  we've proven to ourselves that we're fully capable of dealing with things in real time. Again, this is being definitive. It counterbalances Self-Kindness - either “being kind or not kind.”

Earned Confidence - you don't need to do anything in and around worries or anxieties or put yourself through “phantom conversations” making assumptions about something that hasn't happened yet - or, did happen and you're making an assumption about what people thought about you - like all those things that we are just driving ourselves… through that torment with, is just completely unnecessary.

And, with Earned Confidence, which is very different from confidence itself, because Earned Confidence is really an ability that's accessible to you right now.

Just like that buy-in question of “why be anything less than kind to yourself,” with Earned Confidence you're taking stock. It's like, okay, “What are my two greatest professional achievements?,” or “my two personal triumphs,” and what are “the two greatest adversities I've overcome?”

You can just easily start there. Everyone knows what the answers are - generally speaking - to those things… and say, “I did that,” or “I overcame that,” and recognizing that - anything that you're going through right now in terms of a tough time… is not nearly as hard as the things you've already been through. And if you can get through the things that you've already been through, you're going to get through the things that you're going through now - mainly because you have to anyway - and so why get caught up in all that negativity of what you're doing to yourself around the anxiety and worry?

Now I don't want to slight, Jody. And I I'll pause here. Again, that brain chemistry, and - you know - as someone who contends with the chemistry side of depression, we're talking about different things when it comes to anxiety being clinical and chemistry-related, versus self-imposed in and around the habit of worry.

So, let me stop there and, umm - I know the show is only so long - [smiles].

JODY:

No, but I just I love that. What you're saying is just really so on target because it's what we tell ourselves. And there's - you know - I believe that there's parts of ourselves, inside of ourselves, that can need mending and can need that, that coming together - in many ways.

And what is it that you mentioned about depression you've been through this - how did you get well and how did you stay well?

MATT:

[pauses] Well, I've had many bouts of depression. You know, we had the conversation beforehand. I'm not quite in my 60's yet, but I'm closer to 60 than 50 [laughs].

JODY:

[smiles brightly]

MATT:

I've had some really, really difficult challenges with depression over the years… and probably lost count of how many bouts I've had.

Now I have not had a bout since 2013. And that “Three-Day Rule” I speak to has A LOT to do with that in terms of just being disciplined and convincing myself not to lay around on a day four.

[emphatic] If I get to a Day Four, Jody, it's twice as hard than Day Three was. And so on and so forth. Again, that quicksand analogy really is what I have found to be relevant.

You have to really know what you're - you know - what's good for you from a coping skills standpoint. So, let me simplify that a little bit.

On the Three-Day Rule, for example, and this is for anything having to do with managing your Mood Health - I encourage your listeners [correction: smiles...], “viewers” to come up with a 10-minute routine that is going to lift them up. You know… mix it up…

Three minutes of… maybe it's taking a walk. Three minutes of listening to a favorite song. What is that for you?  Just like three or four things in just 10 minutes time.

But be prescriptive about it. And follow through as if it's a prescription on yourself. It's only 10 minutes, but you still got to make yourself do it. And see how that goes. And then maybe journal about it.

[Emphatically] – Look, the things that we're talking about are “inner work.” And we could talk about it all day long. The question is whether or not anyone is willing to really work at it in order to enrich their lives and have better days - uh - in doing so.

It's always easier said than done. But that's a really good place to start in and around - just “okay, here's this 10-minute thing that I now do.”

Mix it up. Mix your favorite song up - you know, do different things. Call someone up and brighten their day. Reach out to somebody for two minutes on a phone call, someone who lifts you up. What is it that lifts you up?

And that's going to be different for everyone. But there are these very concrete specific actions that people can take to really take head on... the challenges that we're discussing here.

JODY:

I love what you're saying because, to be honest with you, when my children, when I got divorced, my children were older, I didn't know what I liked. I had no idea.

MATT:

Right.

JODY:

…because my identity - and I wanted that to be - as a mom - and raise him. But also once I got divorced, it was obviously a different world. And, I thought, well what do I like? And, you know I thought – “well that's a silly question.” And I said no. I really just didn't know. And it was kind of, it was trial and error. And now I see sometimes for me - and I don't know if it's true for you - it's some of the details I call it in life - the times we’re like… I like to bird [watch] and… But I go out, you know… now I go watch out my window and see the birds and that's a vacation for me.

MATT:

Right.

JODY:

It's the things sometimes I might have not really given much weight to.

MATT:

You have to be intentional.

And I think that's a really good point to make in terms of tying up the reference to presence – because, again, at the foundation of everything we're talking about… You know, a lot of what I've been discussing with you in recent minutes has been tactical - little “mind hacks” and things.

Back to the heart of it all [emphatic] - your resilience and your presence.

So, with presence, again you're dealing with that overthinking. And what you're describing here is about being intentional. And that's really what presence is about…

Again, you're either present or you're not present. And, in order to be present, you really have to be intentional.

So, there are a lot of joys in life that you're missing out on - which is a great motivator. And the same thing goes with resilience, which is why these two things are so important - because the payoff is so dramatic when you're not stressing out so much and all the things that you're doing with your “Intentional Resilience.”

Or, you're really having a great time with your kids or grandkids - you know - enjoying the bird-watching and things. And really tuning into that and the enrichness of it... is going to make you want to do it more.

And, so, to the other kind of hanging point I had in my thoughts around finding out what it is that you like… and as we wrap up, I'll point to this resource. But I have like a “coping skills menu” and things people can go and figure out if they don't know it already.

Like, okay, be more prescriptive and figure out some of the things that you want to do with, umm, yourself.  But it's not just about depression or anxiety or worry, it also applies to loneliness.

We have a “Loneliness Epidemic” officially going on according to our Surgeon General - and that's no slight, as well. But many of the things that we're speaking to in and around loneliness and the coping skills that are involved here - apply just the same. So I want to bring loneliness into the fold here because I know that's important for a lot of people.

JODY:

Well, it is, especially as we get older or whatever. Single, older and we think about our living situations as we are not able to a couple of things here and there and need more support in some ways. And, it doesn't mean life is over, it just means we're just taking a little bit of a curve.

Like you say, it’s part of the resilience. And, what do you have, like some words that motivate you, or quote that when you're kind of down or helps you?

MATT:

Well, I think some of it really comes back to a little of what we were saying here. [Emphatic humor] - Like, this is almost like the foundation, like these are the “Z-isms,” right.  

When it comes to the book, people think it's quips and quotes. It's not. But I do have these call-outs. And one of which is, “Just be nothing less than kind to yourself.”

And, when people ask me about the book and if I have to come up with a final thought - if there's any one thing in all of this that matters - that's really very practical; is just draw that line in the sand, don't let your inner critic cross.

And, stick with it because it's so definitive as your barometer in terms of your personal health and development and inner work… in order to just keep progressing because you can always - you know – always rely on it as your North Star.

On the other side, I'd say the quote which is not in the book, it's actually come as a result of being a parent to my… “emerging adults” - my son and my stepdaughter - because they're always on their gaming. But this is universal.

It's like, “Few good things happen by themselves.”

If you don't put the Xbox down. Or - you know - you don't get away from the computer, you don't go out and meet people, or you don't have these experiences, or you always stay in your comfort zone, you're never going to enrich your life and make these new things happen.

So, the “Few good things happen by themselves,” I think is another - you know - final thought that I want to leave with… the audience here to consider getting out of their comfort zone and making new and fun things happen.

JODY:

What would you like to share with our audience about you, what you can offer them?

MATT:

Thank you, Jody.

Well, look, everything's on the website at MattZinman.com.

The eBook and Audiobook Access Pass currently are free there with the four-year anniversary of Z-isms.

Look, I mean, I didn't write the book to catch cobwebs, right. That's what it's there for [smiles]. So, I can't give away the paper one, but that's there.

The Depression Defeater tool with the coping skills menu I referred to is there. And other resources: certainly, my podcast, “Insights to Live By.”

If anyone's on LinkedIn, I have a new newsletter called, “THE BRIGHT SIDE” that I'm really excited about. That's my current passion project.

And then, if it's relevant for anyone here or they know of, I'm really trying to do more professional speaking. So that can be doing workshops, webinars, going onsite, supporting people at companies…

Just reach out. Let's have a conversation in and around resilience and presence, certainly about burnout and depression and Mood Health… certainly in and around “Energy Management” is another core topic that I speak to.

So, it's not hard to find me and to engage that conversation… if someone has an opportunity that they'd like to explore.

And I thank you for that.

JODY:

Thank you and thank you for what you're sharing to all of us to help uplift us all, I really appreciate that.

MATT:

It's a pleasure. You're the best, Jody. Thank you for having me on again. I so appreciate you.

JODY:

It's a pleasure, it really is.

As always, the choice to experience THE BRIGHT SIDE is yours to enjoy.

THE BRIGHT SIDE is a 100% Human-Generated Publication

LifeMaven Interview Recording:

Thank you for viewing or reading this interview. I'm very proud of it and hope that it helps a lot of people. Thank you for sharing it with anyone you think it can help. There's no time like the present to share THE BRIGHT SIDE!

To your HAPPIERNESS!

Author of “Z-isms: Insights to Live By” (free eBook and Audiobook)

Host of “Insights to Live By – The Podcast”

Contact: matt@Z-isms.com

CURRENT PODCAST

EPISODE 114: Elevating Your Workplace Vibes with Hanan Harb Sahourieh

Are you ready to Vibe-UP? Joining the conversation is friend of the show, Hanan Harb Sahourieh. She’s a Content Marketing and Learning Strategist as well as the author of her new book, "Everybody, Be Cool!" (Amazon link and Review below). It features six exclusive personal development secrets turned easy-to-digest lessons to spark your insight, compassion, and curiosity. You can apply these lessons to develop yourself-in the workplace and life. Elevate YOURSELF by opening your mind to new possibilities and ways of being-at work and home.

HAPPENINGS

Skipping these and the poll this issue. It's beyond long enough.

ADDITIONAL TOPICS FOR WORKSHOPS, KEYNOTES AND LEARNING PROGRAMS

● Extinguishing Burnout for Good: Personally and Organizationally

● Getting Out of Your Head and into Your Life (Taming Overthinking)

● Managing Energy: Personally, Interpersonally and Universally

● Defeating Depression Once and For All

● Foundational Skills for Emotional Intelligence

● Honing Your Intuition for Personal Effectiveness

● Uncommon Mindset Skills to Enrich Your Happierness

To consider having Matt keynote your next event or support your people with workshops, retreats and other custom training programs: Book Matt's Calendar to explore this together.

TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THESE LEARN-BY-DOING EXPERIENTIAL COURSES: The Mindset Reset, WellBeing Reset, Life Upgrade modules (click here)

MORE FREE RESOURCES

Depression Defeater tool and about Mood Health

Self-Care Report Card tool

REVISIT PAST ISSUES

● Issue 1: The 2 Skills to Enrich Your Life for Good

● Issue 2: The Pursuit of Happierness

● Issue 3: The Power of Earned Confidence

● Issue 4: Outsmarting Your Worries and Assumptions

● Issue 5: Trusting Your Intuition to Tame Overthinking

● Issue 6: Putting Your Perception into Perspective

● Issue 7: Kindness Pays Forward

● Issue 8: Fortifying Your Resilience

● Issue 9: Shifting Your Presence Paradigm

● Issue 10: Living in the Moment

● Issue 11: Making a Habits of Habits

● Issue 12: Upgrading Your Life with Less

● Issue 13: The Single Most Transformative Skill for Resilience

THE ESSENTIALS

Z-isms: The inspirational pearls of wisdom, life lessons or personal experiences people share to positively impact the lives of others; Insights to Live By.

Happierness®: A life-enriching mindset combining presence, resilience and free will to be intentionally present and have a reflex of positivity by choosing to embrace the bright side of every situation.

Earned Confidence: An logic filter based on one’s life experiences that proves it unnecessary to worry, be anxious or make assumptions about uncertainties because one is fully capable to cope with actual occurrences in real time.

Resilience: The capacity to withstand or to recover quickly from difficulties; remain unaffected by insignificant occurrences; adapt to challenges; and, keep things in perspective.

Presence: The conscious state of observing, noticing and/or experiencing life as it happens while remaining free of distraction; intentional engagement to tune-in to the moments that matter. Practicing mindfulness.

Objectivity: Expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without personal biases, distortions or interpretations; to consider what’s happening from an impartial standpoint.

ENCORE NEWSFLASH:

It's now FREE to download the Z-isms eBook and audiobook -

"I wrote it to positively impact as many people as possible and invite you to experience it for yourself..."