The Keys To Running A Highly Profitable MSP
Tim Fitzpatrick
MSP & B2B Professional Service Firm Marketing Consultant/Advisor | Fractional CMO | Build and manage your marketing engine to get where you want to go faster. | Remove Your Revenue Roadblocks
What are the secrets behind running a highly profitable managed service provider? In today's episode, we'll explore the key strategies and best practices that can transform your MSP into a thriving lucrative business. Join us as we unlock the secrets to maximizing profitability in your MSP.
Join Tim Fitzpatrick, Daniel Welling, and Adam Morris for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!
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The Keys To Running A Highly Profitable MSP
Tim Fitzpatrick
What are the secrets behind running a highly profitable managed service provider? In today's episode, we'll explore the key strategies and best practices that can transform your MSP into a thriving lucrative business. Join us as we unlock the secrets to maximizing profitability in your MSP. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth, and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have Dan Welling and Adam Morris from MSP Finance Team with me today. Dan, Adam, welcome and thanks for being here.
Adam Morris
Hello. Hello, Tim.
Daniel Welling
Thanks for having us.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited. We're switching sides of the mic. You guys have me on your podcast, so I'm happy to have you as well. And I can't wait to dig into this because running a highly profitable business, it's easier said than done, isn't it?
Daniel Welling
Absolutely.
Tim Fitzpatrick
So to help us get to know you a little bit, I want to ask you guys some rapid fire questions. Since there's two of you, we're going to have fun with this a little bit. It's first question I'm going to have both of you answer. When you are not working, how do you like to spend your time?
Adam Morris
I'll go.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Whoever wants to go first.
Adam Morris
I'll go. So I play a bit of music, I play bass, I'm learning drums, which you're having a lot of fun with, and play a bit of golf, and lift a few weights to keep the aging process delayed as much as possible.
Tim Fitzpatrick
To keep it at bay.
Adam Morris
Yeah, as much as you can.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. Dan, how about you?
Daniel Welling
Well, I'm a keen walker, so I'm always making sure I do my 10,000 steps plus a day. Live in a lovely part of the west of London by the River Thames, so lots of walking by the river. And I'm a mad motor sport fan, F1 in particular. So I'm often, often glued to TV or at a circuit, even better enjoying some petrol.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I love it. Okay, Adam, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?
Adam Morris
A really interesting question, and I had to think quite hard about this one. Up there is, Stop worrying about what other people may think about you. Where does this come from? I'm not sure, but I think you maybe start to work it out in your mid-50s that people aren't actually thinking about you as much as you think they are. Even if they are, stop worrying about it.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Man, I talk to my kids about this all the time. It's easier said than done, and some people never get there, right? But life's a whole lot easier when we stop caring about.
Adam Morris
Indeed.
Tim Fitzpatrick
What do those think? Okay, Dan, what's one thing about you that surprises people?
Daniel Welling
Having said that I'm a motor sport fan, everyone would assume that I'm actually quite good at driving, but I'm totally rubbish.
Adam Morris
He's really Yeah. He's really not good at driving.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. So are you looking forward to self-driving vehicles then?
Daniel Welling
Yes, actually, because I used to joke that I had a solar power car because I never drove anywhere at night. I always like to drink. So I'm particularly looking forward to that.
Tim Fitzpatrick
That's good. I love it. Okay. And then I'm going to ask both of you, where is your happy place?
Adam Morris
Where's my happy place? Well, I'm fortunate to live in a nice part of the world in the UK with a nice garden and nice sunny terrace. So for me, it's a glass of wine out on the terrace, celebrating life, family. Yeah, lots to be thankful for.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. Dan, how about you?
Daniel Welling
Somewhere warm and ideally a racing circuit.
Adam Morris
Oh, that's noisy.
Daniel Welling
If I could be even more specific, I'd go back, say, a decade or so and be at Formula One and the sound reverberating through your rib cage as they head off into the distance and you hear them change gear and marvelous things to be part of.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I love it. So tell us more about MSP Finance Team. What do you guys do? How are you helping MSPs?
Adam Morris
Shall I kick off? For me, this is all about my own journey, I suppose. Something resonated around the challenges of growing an MSP profitably. I started my MSP in the early 'naughties, I've grew it for 15, 20 years, and then sold it three years ago. It wasn't until I really started to understand the numbers, pricing, margins, ratios, really getting on top of all this that I started to work out how vital it was to actually grow an MSP well. I just think, well, I was like a lot of MSP owners, started off as an engineer, and this wasn't something my accountant ever spoke to me about. This wasn't something anybody else really sat down and helped me with. In the end, I figured it out through some mentorship and some other peer group organizations. It was quite transformative, I would say. Within about three or four years, I was able to turn a profitable and growing business into a highly profitable and growing business. That was foundational for my own journey and my own exit. Since exiting, This is just something I wanted to do. I wanted to pull together a service which would help other MSPs start to unravel why they're not making the money they should be making. They're working 60 hours a week, whatever it is. Why are they doing this if they're not rewarded for it? Or why can't they grow? Why can't they build value in the business like they want to? The reason is they purely have to understand what these numbers look to look like and then backtrack from there and build a business around that. It's absolutely foundational and you can't do it in any other way, really. So that's my story for why we're in what we're in. Dan, what's your story for this?
Daniel Welling
Recommended by LinkedIn
Well, I'm a few years ahead of Adam. Actually, my exit was in 2014, so I'm a decade in. And actually at the time, I thought I was done with IT, like a lot of people that exit a business. Got a bit of shareholders fatigue and looking to do something new. I was very really lucky, actually, that I didn't straight too far and I ended up coming back into the marketplace and discovering the community, which led me to just a really enjoyable phase of my life where I was able to employ the skills which I thought I had zero value at all. But actually, when I started talking to other people in the same position as I was, able to offer some guidance from a different perspective. And it was really helpful. And so that developed into mentoring. And in the process of mentoring of our MSPs, we would get into reviewing the numbers, building a business plan. And pretty much all were underserved in some degree, either in terms of their base knowledge or the support structure they had around producing numbers. And that's where the idea came from. And again, Big shout out to community. Adam and I met through a UK peer group community. And following Adam's exit, we were already connected and chatting. And that's where we came together.
What is Financial Maturity?
Tim Fitzpatrick
So cool. You never know where things are going to go, right? When you meet somebody or you meet people. So interesting to hear how people connect and become business partners a lot of the time. So I think that's awesome. So let's talk about finance stuff. Tell us a little bit more about the level of financial maturity that you see in the MSP market. And probably before you answer that, we should probably have you just touch on what is financial maturity? What does that look like? So you can break that down. I think this is an awesome place to start.
Adam Morris
Okay. So What is financial maturity? Well, I guess it's an aligned understanding of your finances from an overall business planning perspective. Starts with understanding with where you want to get to, ultimately, and why you want to get there. That's pivotal, really. Otherwise, what's the journey all about? How do you know where you're actually trying to get to? I think that's where it starts. You're talking about your long term, maybe it's 10 years, 20 years. What is it for? What are you building this business for? Then it's about breaking that down and starting to understand about what does that look like for the next three years? What does that look like for this year? What does that look like for this quarter? Then it's all around, Okay, what is it going to take from a financial perspective? And what do some of these numbers need to look like? What do we need to invest in sales and marketing? What do we need to invest in admin? How do we need to roll out our services? What product stack are we going to provide? What target market we're going to provide? All these different questions, right? And then it's about understanding, therefore, what the numbers look like ultimately down into how are you packaging and pricing those products so that you are making actual margins when you sell and you're making not just enough money to pay your engineers and your direct service people, but also enough to pay for your overheads. You shouldn't underestimate what that will require. You also need to understand the sequence around invoicing for something and the time it takes to collect the cash. If that is several months, what impact does that have on how you go about billing for work, especially if it's large projects. Maturity is about really understanding all of these bits and pieces, the cash flow, the balance sheet, the margins, the profitability, and reviewing and monitoring your performance against what you want to happen so that you can change course and refine as appropriate. Sharing that information with your leadership team, even better, share it with your business so they understand what's going on. Continuous improvement, I suppose. Really understanding that by looking and analyzing these things, you are going to get better at it and your business will improve. I can't remember what the saying is now, but something like, if you don't measure it, you can't manage it. That wasn't quite right, but that is key. So that's what I would say as a long, drawn-out answer is what maturity is.
The Level of Financial Maturity in The MSP Market
Tim Fitzpatrick
So where are most MSPs in this process?
Daniel Welling
Hovering a little bit over zero on their way to one. If you assumed a five-step maturityometer. I think it's what you would expect it to be. If you look at the demographic of who owns an MSP, the majority are engineers by trade, IT technicians, probably by training, some will have worked in a probably a larger business in an internal IT role and therefore been not exposed necessarily to managing a business, say, 50, 100 people plus if they had an internal IT role. And the other route that perhaps MSP owners would have taken is via other MSPs, where, again, they may not have necessarily got to that senior leadership team in an evolved and high-maturity MSP business. And in fact, if they were disenchanted with who they were employed by before, which was their spark to start their own business, which, again, is very common, we see, then naturally, they're not going to have those skills. And as Adam alluded to earlier, very few actually get the support environment around them because your typical compliance, statutory accountant will not be diving into management accounts, which is one of the key things we hop on about. I'm sure boring people, but absolutely key. The compliance account is going to engage once a year. They're going to work out the taxes. And that's probably six months or so after the year ends. So it's like 18 months after the crime happened. You didn't make money or you lost money worse. So you can imagine the chance of doing anything about it is long gone. But naturally, one of the things, and Adam and I were included in this, we look up to accountants as being people of good standing and experts in business. And naturally, wrongly, we might expect them to be guiding us, but often that isn't the extent of the remit and the price that's paid for the service. So yeah, very low and a good majority would probably judge their financial standing at any point by looking at their bank balance.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. I was thinking that, and I was going to ask you that. So thank you for bringing that up, right? It's like at the end of the month, how much money do I have in the bank? Okay, I'm good. Obviously, we need to dig deeper than that.
Adam Morris
And I was just going to add, actually, that it's not always correlated with size. So you can have some larger MSPs which are still struggling, and you can have some smaller MSPs that have it pretty well organized. It tends to correlate with size, but it doesn't always correlate with size. One of the interesting things is you can work with MSPs out there who are growing, who are doing quite well, and they've managed to do it without having formal structured financial maturity in place. If they can do that, then they can really kick on. Or the flip side, you've got a good business, but they've just taken their eye off the ball. They're now in severe cash flow issues. They're not sure how they're going to pay their suppliers at the end of the month, pay payroll. They don't really know where they are. They don't really understand why it's happened. That's possibly because they've got to where they are without having to really look at this. But to kick on, to grow, to be resilient, to handle downturns, all of these unforeseen, you need that level of maturity to be able to provide you with that resilience.
What a Good Financial Maturity Looks Like
Tim Fitzpatrick
When we think about financial maturity, what does good look like?
Adam Morris
Well, I guess it's subjective. I mean...
Tim Fitzpatrick
Sure.
Adam Morris
For me, we know some of the ratios out there. If there are members of the Service Leadership Index, then they'll be familiar with a lot of what the good looks like ratios are. But for those that aren't familiar with that, then you're looking at true labour-loaded gross margin around 42, 43%. That's when you are ensuring your taking into consideration your service costs, including your labor costs in that. Profit, you're looking at 17, 18% upwards. Again, you're including or you're normalizing that to include the costs of the owners if they're working in the business in that. So that's after you've paid yourself effectively as an owner. And generally, actually, that's one of the areas that a lot of smaller MSPs tend to forget about. They might be making, let's say, 300,000 profit, for example, aren't I doing really well? Well, yeah, maybe, but maybe you need to be paid It's 50,000, actually, if I was going to buy your business, in which case you're only making 150,000 profit, aren't you? Not 300,000. So you're not doing quite as well as you think you might be doing. And if you're only making 50 profit and you haven't paid yourself, then you've got real problems. So this is important for business owners to understand some of these fundamentals. Your business needs to make profit over and above what you take as an owner, assuming it's a standard industry standard level of compensation. That's margin, that's profit. They're two of the main drivers. Cash reserves, that's an attitude, I guess. For me, minimum three months, probably more like six months, longer, again, if you can, but put it in somewhere that's earning some good interest. The resilient side was always important for me. I guess it depends to some extent exactly what issues you have in your business and where we need to look. But those would be probably in the top five in terms of the fundamentals of how you go about measuring a good business.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Adam, I'm going to make sure I got these right. Gross profit or gross margin, somewhere in that 42 to 43% range. Net profit at 17 to 18 %. That includes the owner's pay and cash reserves somewhere in that three to six month range. But certainly, like you said, depending on how certain owners feel, they may want to be more aggressive or less aggressive. Okay, cool. I love it.
Adam Morris
Dan, you were going to say something. What were you going to say?
Daniel Welling
Yeah, Obviously, I agree with all of that. But then I was going to expand, perhaps to add some of the behaviors and activities that support those numbers as outcomes. So high maturity are producing monthly management accounts. Again, apologies for boring everybody on this, but that basically means we've got an accurate and a timely view of the business. The management account should be by the middle of the following month for the preceding. They should include adjustments for accruals and prepayments. They should include deferred income, and they should also, in particular to the MSP market, they should take account of a true stock position. It sounds odd, but MSPs, their predominant business model is monthly recurring revenue. Naturally, they get involved in selling one-time products and services as well, but often they're not accounting for them in the right way. An easy track for someone to fall into is they buy a PC the last day of the month, they invoice it to the customer the first day of the following month. That's going to decrease your position in that preceding month and artificially inflate your position the following month. And deferred income is also a key aspect. A good number will still bill annually, quarterly in advance. So that revenue needs to be withheld from the PnL and released at the appropriate periods because it goes back to that, that looking at the bank balance, wahoo moments. Well, yeah, you've just collected three months in advance of revenue from your key customers. And then at the end of that quarter, and they've got a tax to a VAT to pay, suddenly they're in negative, and they've just worked hard continually all the way through, not realized what's going on. And then the final thing that builds on management accounts, once you know where you are today or within the month, the next level of maturity is then, right, well, let's now look ahead and therefore have in a budget that looks out for years ahead is the level to get to. It's going to be more detailed and more accurate over the next 12 months. But years two, two and three should should have some substance to them. And then looking at that combined with a proactive commercial measure and manage of the business by way of having a pipeline so you know what opportunities are coming in and you can start to more accurately plan where you are, where you're likely to be next month, but also know where you are solidly this month as well.
How MSPs Handle Collecting Payment and Where Most Go Wrong
Tim Fitzpatrick
I have a couple questions I want to pull out of this because this is great. The first one, it has to do with collecting payment from customers. Adam, you touched on this a little bit earlier, but I'm curious, In your guys' experience, the best MSPs, when it comes to collecting payment from clients, how are they handling it and where are most MSPs going wrong when it comes to collecting payment?
Adam Morris
Well, I can use my own experience to some extent. So when I first started my MSP, I would wait to the end of the month, an invoice at the end of the month for the month that's just gone past, and then I'd give them 30 days credit for that invoice. The best I would get is being paid 60 days after I started providing services, and that's if they paid on time. We didn't have direct debit all the time or any automation around it. It could be literally 60 days, 90 days, 120 days before I was being paid. Then, as I say, over time, started to work this out and started to take on some better practice. What I'd recommend is be confident in your... If someone wants to buy what you offer, then they like you for whatever reason. That is the time you should be setting the standard of what you do and the expectations around the way you do it. That's the time that you say, We get paid up front or we get paid at the start of the month.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes.
Adam Morris
No discussion. There is no discussion. This is how it works. You need to pay us like this for you to receive the service you expect. Otherwise, it's not going to work. My experience is those If you are presenting your services in the right way, that generally tends to nip it in the bud and it doesn't tend to be any ongoing conversation. The hard thing to do is to transfer customers who have been expected to pay one month, two months later. Now you want them to pay at the start of the month or even in advance. That's the challenge. It can be done. Like all things, it can be done. It needs a bit of effort. It needs your house to be in order. You need to be delivering great service. You need to work on a plan that migrate your customers over to that, and you need to put it into perspective with everything else you're doing. But I would say if you can move to that system, if you can have direct debit in place or take away the manual component of waiting for payments to come through, then those are all things you should be doing. Ideally, if you've got customers that are objecting to it, legacy customers, perhaps they're very important to you, they don't want to budge, then perhaps what you need to do is look at, continue to grow your business and shift that A customer down to a C customer or D customer, and then you'll be in a more confident position about having that conversation. If they need to go, they need to go because maybe they're just not the right fit. But that is quite an arrogant thing to say. It's a lot easier to than it is to actually do it. But I think there's an aspiration there. If you can try and work on your business in such a way that you can just tend to work with those more professional, those businesses that appreciate what you do.
Tim Fitzpatrick
So what I'm hearing you say is it's about positioning upfront, right? When you're onboarding in the sales process, right? For most MSPs, they're signing longer term contracts. Even if they're not, they're still in agreement of what's being done. And part of that conversation is, here's how we take payment. And there's what I'm also hearing you say is there really isn't any reason other than what's in our head, right? The monkey on our back getting in the way of just saying, Hey, look, we auto bill the first of every month. You can pay by ACH, you can pay by credit card, whatever. But we're automatically billing and we're automatically taking payment.
Adam Morris
That's it. It's normally nothing because, of course, at that point, they are psychologically already predisposed to your solution, your service. They're already looking forward to having it put in place. They've made their decision. It's a monkey off the back. They're thinking, Do I really want to have this conversation? You've got a higher chance of it just going straight through at that point and not trying to hide it and just making it completely matter of fact. Of course, why wouldn't you do it that way? Because you're a well-run business and they want you to be a well-run business, right? Because how else are you going to stick around and be there for them in the long term?
Tim Fitzpatrick
The reality is, too, if we think about monthly payments, Everything that we pay for monthly, the vast majority of us are already used to automatically paying in one way, shape, or form. So this really is no different. The amounts may be different. It's It's not like I'm paying my Netflix bill every month, but we're used to paying monthly and we're used to auto-paying. So I think it's more an issue of a roadblock that the MSP has more than the client has. So thank you for that, Adam.
What Most MSPs Spend on Marketing
Tim Fitzpatrick
So the other question I want to ask you on this, selfishly, because this comes up a lot, what do you see most MSP spending on marketing? And where do you recommend that spend be? If we talk about it as a % of revenue, when this comes up, what are you guys' thoughts on that?
Daniel Welling
Well, interesting question, and it's a pretty regular discussion point, I think, with all MSPs. The first qualifier is, of course, it depends on the stage of business. And that would therefore drive the percentage that they might be, like if you're trying to get it down to a percentage of, say, revenue and the rate of growth that the MSP is striving for. So if you've got a well established large business, then their relative percentage spend might be lower than the younger, smaller MSP. I know there are some thought leaders that would give an absolute percentage, but I think I would hold back from actually saying saying a percentage. It could be 100 % when you've only got one customer, and it could be 5 % if you're a larger, more established business and you're not going after a particular rate of growth. I think probably a more practical number to assume, and again, all of these are imperfect when you just try and take one number to describe something that is inherently complicated. I calculated in my business when we were in the... We had the peak of momentum of our sales and marketing machine was it had gone through all of those stages of coughing and spluttering, and it had got our head esteem and a bit of momentum, and our data was warm, and our people were well-oiled, and we had a slip process. We were executing well, and we knew our customers that would buy from us and all of those aspects. And we were effectively buying a customer about £3,000. That was our cost of buying a customer. And that was the best it got to. Today, and a call earlier on today, we've done some preliminary numbers and that they were about 10,000 a customer. And a prior podcast episode that Adam and I hosted, we actually got to £24,000 a customer. But those numbers are relative to the customer that you're buying and how long are you going to keep them and what their lifetime margin contribution is going to be. And also then has relative to what your long term plans for the business are as well, whether you're in a buying or selling mindset. So, yeah, really, really tricky, really tricky questions to answer. So thanks for the questions.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. Well, hey, I ask it because I get asked it all the time. And to be fair, Dan, I typically answer it pretty much in the same fashion that you did. I will give percentages, but I preface that by just saying, look, this is a general rule of thumb. It really does depend on, like you said, where are you at, how profitable are you, and where do you want to go? Somebody that wants to grow 10X in five years is going to need to spend a hell of a lot more than somebody that wants to grow 2X in 10, right?
Adam Morris
And also, what are you including in the costs? Are you including the owner's time, including account management time, or is this just what you're paying an agency for and some SEO for? So what it is, what actually are you including in this total? I think by the time you include your... If you're the main salesperson and you're the owner and you're out there for half your time knocking on and going to events and speaking to people, then that's a cost of acquisition, isn't it? You are a salesperson, you're the hunter. Plus, you might have other people doing some account management. That's leading to some referrals, that's leading to new business. It's complicated to try and unravel exactly what it is you're spending. But the reality is, back to my former point, when you price your services, you need to ensure you are going to make sufficient margin to be able to pay for this. If you don't, you're going to be dead in the water. You're going to be servicing your clients, and you're not going to be able to grow. You're just going to be hanging around for some referrals, hopefully keeping your fingers crossed. And it's going to be hard work.
How to Value an MSP Business When Selling
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So you guys both exited MSPs. There's a lot of selling, mergers, acquisitions, activity in the space. If I'm an MSP and I'm thinking about selling, well, how do you value it?
Daniel Welling
Well, there's another interesting question. So thanks again, Tim. So Yeah, I mean, we probably don't have enough time left on the episode to go into a lot of detail. But let me summarize it as Adam and I when we go through the process of valuing MSPs, and that is something we do on a regular basis, and in fact, is baked into the before mentioned budgeting and business planning process. So not just those active, but those planning for the long term. We use a number of mechanisms that effectively triangulate in to give normally the the right answer, and the right answer is obviously different depending on whether you're a buyer or seller. And again, it's a complicated process to accurately value an MSP business. At the smaller ends of the market, we tend to use a core MSP service and all the gross profit for that core service as the multiplier. And that only really works for businesses, say, but below a million and in some case is much smaller. And generally we're talking about, say, a one times that core service. So we're not talking about Microsoft 365 resale. We're talking about the core per user per month, per seat. The gross profit multiplier tends to be two times because typically we'd expect that to run at about 50 %. But again, you might have a small business that serves a particular niche. They get a really high sell price, but their cost price is the same, and therefore they make a higher profit as a result, and therefore their business should be worth more. But that tends to move away as you move up into the larger, more mature businesses, at which point, typically the EBITDA multiplier, which anyone can Google and find out, a) how to spell EBITDA and also what it means. Crucially, though, when we talk about EBITDA and any buyer is talking about EBITDA, they're talking about a normalized EBITDA numbers. So normalized for the equivalent market salary of the active shareholders in the business. And if you're a shareholder in a million pound plus business, really, you're going to... You'll probably get paid 100,000 somewhere for the level of responsibility and skill set and experience you bring. So A, if you can't show a profit above that, and in fact, if you're earning less than that, then you've got a question whether the business is actually serving you. And then so we're talking about EBITDA after that cost has been been allowed for. And then you're into an EBITDA multiplier, of which you'll see anything from two or three times at the bottom end up to 10 plus times at the top end. And when I say bottom end and top end, I'm talking about maturity of business. Size does matter. Selling a business with a senior leadership team installed and not reliant on the owner is inherently worth more than a business that's entirely reliant on one underpaid owner. That's just two different entire entities. And so, yeah, and that in itself is probably as far as I can go in the time we've got. But hopefully gives your business a bit of a flavor and a place to start in assessing that. And crucially, the action to take on valuations is to value your own business and decide what you would pay for it if you weren't you and you were taking a non-emotional view on it. And that's normally a pretty telling exercise.
Tim Fitzpatrick
A non-emotional view is the key point.
Adam Morris
Just very quickly on this, Tim, just to add an extra point that I certainly didn't understand for years, and didn't really understand why... Well, I understood why people bought businesses, but I didn't really understand why they bought them, and that's because the multiples increased with the amount of EBITDA. So If you can double your EBITDA by buying another business, you will increase your multiple of that proportionately. So you win twice. And of course, that is why there's so much M&A going on. And it's just a real fundamental part of the jigsaw puzzle.
Conclusion
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for that. This has been a fantastic conversation, and I appreciate you guys share in the time. Where can people learn more about you and connect?
Adam Morris
They can... Well, the mspfinanceteam.com. Yeah, scrolling at the bottom there. That's probably your starting point. And drop us an email. We're on LinkedIn. We have a podcast. It's a numbers game. Please have a look at that. If you're walking your dog or going down the gym or something and If you want to be mildly entertained, then perhaps have a listen to that one. All feedback, very much accepted. Anything else, Dan, have I missed anything else? Missed anything?
Daniel Welling
Only the fact that we do tend to get out and about to events. If you're in the London vicinity, I coordinate the London Tech Tribe meetup, and there are other Tech Tribe meetups that are available. And we go to Competea, Connectwise, IT Nation, Evolve, those sorts of places. So if you see us, come up and say hello. We're very friendly.
Adam Morris
Always, always I'm interested in a chat and seriously always interested in just helping anybody out there that may need some help. Just really like doing that stuff.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. Adam, Dan, thank you. Connect over at mspfinanceteam.com. Those of you that are watching and listening, appreciate you as well. If you want to connect with us, you can do that over at rialtomarketing.com. The other tool we've got for you is over at RevenueRoadblockScorecard.com. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can do that there in less than five minutes. So thank you again. Till next time. Take care.